Pray for these officers

Another ignorant kid. Once again, these are law enforcement officers, with firearms. COMPLY!!! In addition to being ignorant, this kid displayed ZERO intelligence.

As for the Officers, I thought their professionalism, restraint and training were exemplary.


You look for trouble, trouble will find you. :thinking:


The guy in the car sounds like he is trying to claim himself as being a sovereign citizen or something similar. Though if he truly believed himself to be a sovereign citizen why was he carrying a U.S. Passport?

Maybe intentional suicide by cop? Aside from eventually handing over the passport he very much appeared to be intentionally not complying.

I see one brief moment where MAYBE one of the officers could have gotten control of the driver’s weapon as he was apparently drawing it. But there is no guarantee that would have been successful and it would have exposed him to other attacks from the driver so can’t blame the officer for deciding to gain distance and draw his own weapon in defense.

Seems like the officers gave the driver a whole lot of chances to make sure the encounter ended peacefully.


Based on the mother’s statements towards the end of the article, the apple didn’t fall far from the tree. It’s very sad for everyone involved, especially considering how stupid the driver was.

Also noted: the headline had to specify that the driver was white. I guess I understand why it had to be said, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the story. It was his actions, not his skin color, that determined the outcome of this story.

Also also: gee, that site sure hosts a lot of ads. I thought the story was over 4 times, and then there was more narrative under the ads.


Just a pause in the chief’s presentation. Someone else working the audio/video.


Yeah, hadn’t seen the rest of the article below all the adds. Sure seems like the mother was likely a significant contributing factor in ensuring her son had an unsafe encounter with the police.


When did the deceased realize he f…


I know what is the proper way to talk to LEOs during traffic stop… but after carefully watching this video, I’m so happy I’m lefty. :neutral_face:
My holster is never gonna be visible next to seat-belt buckle and unlocking seat-belts never be treated as reaching for gun. :face_with_open_eyes_and_hand_over_mouth:
Perhaps it was not the case here… but that was my first thought. :thinking:

Anyway, escalating the situation will always make things worse… and LEOs lose trust to the driver very quickly.


I live near where this happened. This looks to me like an on going feud between some misguided people and the local police. They knew this kid didn’t have a DL or Registration, that’s why they pulled him over. Did he reach for his seat belt in order to comply or did he reach for his gun, either way, he should have never put his hand anywhere close to it.


I actually watched that part twice because of that possibility. But generally when I unbuckle my seat belt I use my right hand. It looked to me like the driver tried to get to the belt buckle with his left hand which makes me suspect that his right hand was busy doing something else. Like perhaps trying to get his pistol out.

Regardless the right answer in this situation when several armed police officers ask you to get out of the car is “yes officer but I have a pistol in a holster near the belt buckle. How would you like me to proceed?” Said with both hands on the wheel. I believe this driver’s response was something along the lines of - if you make me get out of the car there is going to be trouble.


If I had been the officer making that stop I would have felt threatened. I also would have called for back-up. That young man was non-compliant and just wanted trouble. His actions were probably instilled in him from his mother’s training. If I get pulled over in my car by a LEO I will comply with every command he is giving. The body cam video will definitely save these cops from going to jail, IMO it was a justifiable shooting.


A couple of points here: The initiating officer conducted a lawful, legal, and “good” stop. His demeanor, choice of words, etc. demonstrate “sovereign citizen” training.

The driver by switching his phone to his left hand, and then reaching to his holster after warning the officer that they “will have an issue” is what caused the deadly force encounter. The immediate video capture of his empty holster, followed by the immediate video capture of a large handgun on the floorboard just inches from where the holster had been, confirms the officers’ decisions.

Personally, i believe that this young man intended to fire that weapon at the officers. I do not think he was aware that there were 5 officers.

The officer who went into the car to pull the driver out was the field Sergeant. He was in close proximity and would have been able to hear the commands of the initiating officer, followed by the escalation commands of a second officer. The Sergeant then took the lead to remove the driver. This would not be unusual as the initiating officers becomes busy “unloading” his hands of the passport by placing it on the roof of the car.

I am aware that most judges are not amused at these “Sovereign Citizens” and their refusals to cooperate. It is clear in every state that to operate a motor vehicle on our roadways is not a “right”, but a privilege. That privilege is predicated on following certain laws; such as being 16 years old, properly licensed and insured, not under the influence, and properly registering the vehicle being driven.

It is amazing that these people refuse to comply even though they know these things.

As for a feud, I don’t prefer to use that term in these situations. The police perhaps have been having problems with this family, which does not designate a feud. It is their job to enforce the laws that these people are scoffing at.

The officer was correct. It was 100% on the driver how that stop ended up.


This professional analyse from Chris Bertram (retired Deputy Police Chef, Criminal Justice Professor) made everything clear.
I was one of people who were thinking Allen reached for seat belt buckle…

The other thing I noticed, not related to the incident - LEOs get red dot on their Glocks :+1:


Agree. BTW, look at the driver’s feet in “1:37”. Not a normal position before unbuckling.


Can someone on here can give me some insight as to when this whole “sovereign citizen” movement got started? Been seeing these types of videos for several years now but have no idea where this movement came from. There’s lots of laws that I may not necessarily agree with in this country but I still obey them and when armed officers approach me I’m certainly going to be very polite and compliant.


My wife was a Military Police investigator. She said they were well aware of them in the late 70s. They were well known as a threat to law enforcement even then.


Wow, I didn’t realize they had been around that long. It was probably 7 or 8 years ago before I first saw a YouTube video of a cop pulling one of these people over and had never heard of them before that. I guess they just weren’t that well know down here in the South.


The South was more focused on “sovereign states” rather than “sovereign citizens.” :wink:


lol! Yeah, you got that right! :+1:


Agreed. I think a lot of it may have started out west. I am not sure about it though.

1 Like