A Socialist is a Communist without a gun, as someone once said. Of all people, felons and socialists should be denied access to firearms.
If they are law abiding citizens, it doesn’t matter what political party they believe in. I, personally, do not care what any pro 2A supporters political position is.
This is one thing that, we as Pro 2A advocates, have to stop doing. This incessant labeling of some demographic that doesn’t fit some narrow pedantic political viewpoint. We have to stop this whole entire “eat our young” mentality, this is what anti 2A proponents want. They want us to be divided. There is no need or reason to have some political litmus test for anyone who is Pro 2A. All we should care about is that they support the 2A.
There are pro 2A people from every conceivable part of the political spectrum.
That is the key part. I dont understand how one can label him or herself a socialist, or a communist, if they dont subscribe to certain points, such as
- class warfare
- forced re-education of reactionaries (work camps)
- overthrow of imperialist and capitalist rule
If they indeed believe that -they are dangerous people, period, and should be treated as national security threat.
Take for example statements like “billionaires should not exist”, or “tax the 1% richest 100%”. How do they plan to achieve this? What is the rich will not go along?
My family suffered a great deal under Communist rule. I assure you that such ideology is not harmless. I dont deny 1A protection for it, but it should be tolerated as much as open declaration of nazi views or pedophile views.
I am not trying to argue, and there is no animosity here. I just think this is a learning opportunity for myself.
I don’t understand how having a differing political viewpoint makes someone guilty of something. The legal criteria in the USA is “Innocent Until Proven Guilty”. If they do something that is actionable due to their political views, they have gone from a law abiding citizen to one who is no longer a law abiding citizen.
Thus they are removed from the protections provided under the 2A. Until they cross that bridge though, their political views are not relevant.
As an example, I am about as far to the right as you can get regarding our Constitution, our nation’s military, and law enforcement as you can get. But I fully support the parts of the Constitution that place checks and limits on discretionary power’s granted to Law Enforcement. Such as the 4th A, 5th A, 6th A, 14th A. Now that would appear to be two completely and irreconcilably divergent beliefs. Yet those are my beliefs.
I was very glad that so many divergent beliefs were on display yesterday at the rally in Virginia yesterday. I, personally, believe we should very happy that so very many participants that transcended labels showed yesterday. It shows that the 2nd A, transcends traditional political points of view, and their presence yesterday, helped expose the untruths that were being forcefed to the populace by MSM.
Well, yes and no. As @Alexander8 mentioned, belief in socialism means you believe that certain things must happen to society, or must be present in a socialist society. That’s where socialists are, de facto, “guilty,” Because of what they believe, they are in conflict with American law and American historical foundation.
Now, I am pretty sure that neither Bernie nor AOC (to name the most prominent) fully buy into socialism, because they really don’t understand what that means. Well, Bernie might, but AOC displays such a grand lack of knowledge of history, that it’s quite unlikely she understands.
In the end, they want what every politician who claims to have the only way to a good future - power and wealth, at the expense of anyone who stands in the way.
Trump is unique among politicians. He doesn’t need additional wealth (he’s donating his salary in office), he has notoriety to burn and has already reached the highest office in the land.
^^^^ THIS! Let’s stop labeling people and see them as people.
Do you agree with everything the party you’re politically affiliated with believes, @Alexander8 and @OldGnome? Most people agree with some parts and not others. I haven’t heard of anyone in the US who calls themself a socialist demanding work camps. And I think class warfare already exists in the US.
We cannot limit someone’s rights based on their beliefs - otherwise, our rights can be limited because someone else doesn’t like what we believe.
Personally, I don’t think Bernie Sanders has bought into socialism… he owns 3 homes. He’d have to give up at least two of his homes and $2 million net worth. But that’s just me.
@Zavier_D, I’ve spoken too strongly. One can be charged or found guilty of planning a riot, but not for wishing there was a riot, or believing that a riot is necessary. Being innocent, they have their 2A rights. You are totally correct on this. Yet the FBI should recognize their potential to foment disorder and watch them. Like they watch extremists in the Earth Liberation Front, for example.
Perhaps folks in the ELF advocate for 2A. But viewing them as allies, in any area… no, thanks.
I’m pretty sure a lot of people are being watched thanks to all of the smart technology out there…
And you’re right, they’re not all alike, there are some extremists who are dangerous. But I think we find extremists in so many groups no matter what their political affiliation is.
Fidel Castro’s personal wealth was estimated in billions. The Kim family excesses are legendary. No, the communists themselves dont subscribe to living in poverty, they just condemn everyone to it.
As far as re-education camps - check this out. You cannot make this up!
I think that’s a great point @Dawn.
I can tell you that I do not agree with every issue the political party I affiliate with has. There are a number of issues that I am actually quite liberal on. Those beliefs, however, do not change my POV as it concerns my values in regards to the Constitution and the 2A.
I haven’t voted for a Democratic or Republican Presidential Candidate in the past 3 Presidential elections. I have wrote in a Libertarian Candidate. Will I do that in 2020? Most likely not, as I think I am going to have to hold my nose and vote for the Candidate that is least dangerous to the Constitution and the 2nd A.
I think this is going to be the most important election our Country has faced in recent memory and will face until 2030. With control over the Senate, Congress, The Presidency, and most importantly, statewide government as it relates to the Census and the redistricting that comes with the Census. To be perfectly honest, I think the Census is the most important issue, this election cycle.
Like many/most politicians it’s do as I say not as I do. Perfect example was ACA (Obama Care) where everyone in the Country was subject to it…except Congress and the President.
So I believe Mr Sanders has bought into Socialism…for everyone but himself and his fellow legislators (and probably donners). Think Oligarchy.
Oh, gosh, no.
There is a reason I am not affiliated with any political party. I-USA, thats me.
Oh, there are some… Not saying all of them, but they are out there.
Weissgerber: “Let’s Force Them (Billionaires) to Build Roads…Rebuild Our Roads, Rebuild Our Dams, Rebuild Our Bridges. Let’s Force Them…”
Weissgerber: “What Will Help is When We Send All the Republicans to the Re-Education Camps.”
May not be safe for work…
To be honest, I think a lot of the ‘socialists’ in the US are young, impressionable, well meaning, folks with no real knowledge of what socialism really is. But, they can be easily led. I think on the surface, socialism sounds good, and when you find out it is not, it is too late to get out easily.
Edited: made the may not be safe for work bigger and put it before the video. Probably being overly cautious. ~Dawn
The man himself, V.Lenin, knew about such people, knew their power and how to harness it. He called them “useful idiots”, not very flattering, but he had direct style.
“Oh no, it cannot happen here”. Right.
Thanks Dawn, will try to remember to add the “not safe for work” thing more prominently. I go to several forums, all have different standards. I do try to stay PG when I post.
A good friend of mine is a Democrat. He owns guns and hunts. what bothers me is most of the time, gun control does not bother him. Pistol registration doesn’t really bother him. WTF? The least he could do is stand up for his rights but in the end it is his choice not to.
Another friend (no known party affiliation) does not understand why anyone would want to shoot a gun but supports my daughter in her shooting competitions! After showing him a new gun I wanted he even said it was dumb that NY outlawed it because it has a 10 round mag, adjustable stick AND a thumb hole. It’s built as a competition gun. So he at least understands that is is dumb to just ban a gun based on looks. So I educated a non gun person.
The end result is we ALL need to stand up for our rights lets the 2nd fall or be over run like it has in NY… the rest can also fall.
Now I also know a few socialist minded people (my former pastor) and they just don’t listen to common sense. She’s all for the poor getting MORE. I respectfully disagreed and pointed to a few people we know that get 10K plus each year for doing nothing. I got brushed aside.
So there is a certain mindset outside of the normal IMHO that is very dangerous. I have seen that in any of the 3 parties we have now.
The question is, “can we educate them” or are they lost?
The first thing I thought when I read @Fred_G’s post was also “useful idiots”. People tend to hold really strongly to poorly thought out positions.
Educate those who are willing to listen. We have logic and reason on our side. You cannot convert those who are unreasonable, so the only way you should spend time on those is if a logical and reasonable person is within earshot of your conversation