phony gun debate

wasn’t sure where this fit in. but though it was important

Not until our gun debates become nonpartisan will we be able to make any progress toward saving lives do to gun violence. I don’t think murder is a political issue and is nonpartisan. When we make it political we are accepting that it is not that big of an issue to do something about and are passing the blame back and forth.


Unfortunately “we” here don’t get to choose whether or not certain politicians will use it as an excuse to further infringe on our Rights and Liberties while simultaneously making everybody less safe. So long as some people and some politicians have additional control over The People as their goal, well, hopefully other people don’t want that and boom, it’s partisan


I am not saying we shouldn’t be political I am saying “we” shouldn’t make our argument political because our politicians won’t or can’t back us up. All they want is votes. Logic doesn’t enter the picture. Deceit does. “We” know our cause is just and politicians can stand for or against “our” cause but I think our cause is too important to put in someone else’s hands. But that brings me full circle as to what to do about the politicians against our cause and I think we should point out their hate(for lack of a better word) and let our true feelings about saving lives be heard. They would probably be more open minded to our cause if they thought they could get our votes. Why they are open minded to anti gun votes is because there are more of them. Another reason not to make it political.


Our representative based government kind of requires it, though. We don’t vote directly as a whole on everything.


I think I might get you Robert1246.

Using honey instead of vinegar. Trying not to turn off others, remaining neutral politically per se. To try to have someone’s ear, separate from other social emotionally laden topics. Not adding fuel to the fire, not joining or starting a fight.

Heard someone say once, to say, “Yes, I used to feel that way once myself, but this happened and it changed me”, using “I” statements.


You said it better than I could. I think when we get political about it we get emotional and it clouds our rational thinking.


THIS :point_up_2: :point_up_2: You are 100% correct.


There is no place in politics for emotion. I get more motivated when our Constitutional rights are being infringed, but that is not emotional. Emotions do not serve one well when logic and reason are needed.

Unfortunately, I think you’ll find politics is nothing but mass emotional manipulation.


That may be, but “we get emotional” does nothing for fighting for our rights. Arguing for one’s rights based on one’s “emotions” is a losing position. Therefore, I use logic and reason. The Left does try to use emotional ploys as they do not have any facts to debate with.

You can’t win an emotional argument with logic and reason. :wink:
Believe me, I wish you could. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen some frothing-at-the-mouth anti-2A activist gasp for air and say “You have presented a sound rational argument and I will now concede defeat.”

(Not to defend the anti-2A folks, but it’s pretty easy to get emotional over something like a room full of dead Kindergarten children.)

I totally agree with you, in that I think we have facts and reason on our side. I’ve simply seen no empirical evidence that logic and reason play any role in the anti-2A lobby.


Very true, but my getting emotional will not win it, either. I would have PM’d you on these last few posts, but you do not have that active.


:100: This is also true.
In fact, I would direct this to our anti-2A counterparts. Instead of yelling at me, try making a reasoned argument. I’m not saying I’ll go along with it, but at least I’ll listen. I don’t listen to screamers.


Got this email today and thought this would be a good place to share it.

Dear Robert,

One day after completing a Braver Angels workshop, a man approached our facilitator with tears in his eyes. The man — a landlord who leans Blue — was so angry at Reds that he refused to rent to anyone who leaned conservative.

But as he told our facilitator, getting to know a Red participant in the workshop changed his heart. After the two of them got closer — trading stories, exchanging life experiences, and breaking down stereotypes — he looked at his fellow participant with new eyes and said, “You know, I’m a Blue. I disagree with what you said. But powerful people out there want us to hate each other. Let’s not do it.”

As I’ve traveled the country this past year, speaking with thousands of Americans who are curious about our work, I’ve gotten to know so many people who have dared to change their minds — not about the issues, but about each other.

Like the pro-choice activist who gave a warm hello to her pro-life counterpart at a Braver Angels event in Sacramento. Or the conservative who invited the liberal he met at a workshop to Thanksgiving dinner in the midwest. Or the two Jewish women — Reena and Randy — who’ve developed a powerful, unlikely friendship despite their opposing advocacy. “I get an email from Randy and she says, ‘My husband and I are going to the AIPAC conference. Are you going to be protesting outside? If so, let’s meet for coffee.’”

The work we do as Braver Angels across this country doesn’t just repair and strengthen politically divided relationships. With each stitch we sew between one “side” and the other, our entire society grows stronger, becoming less afraid, more creative, and much more resilient.

In my work I talk a lot about how polarization is the problem that fuels other problems, making all other problems harder to solve. But this dynamic also makes depolarization: the solution that liberates other solutions, making all other solutions easier to find.

This is why we hope you’ll support everything we’re doing with a contribution today. Every single relationship, conversation, and donation counts.

Powerful people want us to think that everyday Americans can’t model, teach, and inspire each other to try a braver way.

I am proud to join with all of you to prove that we absolutely can.

— Mónica Guzmán
Braver Angels Senior Fellow for Public Practice

As an active member of several or more rights groups, I talk to numerous people, including our government representatives. I agree, there are some that will listen, but I have had some literally scream in my face at the top of their lungs - another reason I do not get emotional.



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