How would an Attorney/lawyer mitigate something like this? Considering the normal self defense ranges mentioned every where I read, would a smaller lower power round be a better idea? I’m thinking maybe something that is less likely to go thru somebody and hit somebody else or do property damage but still penetrate enough to be effective. I have never heard of anybody that would want to get shot from a 22lr or a 22mag or a 380cal. Maybe a 38 cal could be included. With the advancement in bullet technology I’m wondering if this is a practical idea or not.
It isn’t so much the caliber of the round as it is the construction of the projectile.
It isn’t advised to use FMJ (full metal jacket, or ball ammo) in any self defense situation unless that is all that is available.
Good point, that’s one reason why I mentioned modern bullet technology.
Or you live in New Jersey, though I have recently read the polymer-filled HP rounds are not HP rounds by NJ law; so those are legal in NJ, but standard HP are still illegal.
Even considering that, you still want the most effective round available for your platform. If proximity is of concern, then, of course, you need to consider alternatives, such as shotguns in the home; using 00 Buck is probably not a good idea, but #4 or #6 would still be quite effective and less likely to harm/kill a neighbor.
Depends on your location, and if it is at home, and where you live.
If at home, do you live in an apartment or townhome? Shared walls may cause an issue as penetration of those shared walls may injure someone on the other side.
A shotgun with birdshot might prevent that penetration, or depending on the construction of those walls, #4 buck shot might work… or make sure you have JHP, or SJHP, to ensure expansion and avoid over penetration.
If outside, it is simply ensuring you know your target and what is beyond it, or I could be wrong. Others might have better ideas on outside and in the public defensive shooting.
Actually that had nothing to do with my question and I frankly can’t understand how it would.
It is one of the rules of gun safety to know your target and what is beyond it. Don’t rely on the ammo to make up for choosing your shot.
So in a dynamic situation your so good your not going to miss, or, the BG is not going to move, right. Or he’s not going to grab for your gun, or a million other possibleties. And what has your statement got to do with my question. Considering a complete pass through hit would still be a hit. And what is beyond your target is a reason not to take the shot, I guess is what your point is.
I would submit you are over thinking the situation on pass through rounds. A$$uMEing good shot placement and SD ammo. The variables of course are too numerous to even fathom or quantify. I would be more concerned if I was running a 10mm or 357 Mag or something similar but 45, 40, & 9mm are going to stay inside a normal person if hit center mass. I did my trauma rotation at Harvard and Yale Knife and Gun Clubs (Universities) and we recovered A LOT of handgun boolits from center mass shots as well as thigh hits. Other extremities not so much obviously. That being said I do remember on gent who took three rounds center mass that blew big holes out of his back BUT they were near contact shots as all three entrance holes had powder residue. In recent news the Kenosha shooting the perp took 7 rounds of 9mm at close range only one put him out of commission because it hit his spine and he lived. Near as I have heard none of the rounds left the body. As to what a lawyer would say, there is way too much historical data on boolits doing “stupid stuff” for a through and though shot hittiing someone else to be considered “negligent” again A$$uMEing that you did everything correctly, had good shot placement were in fear of your life yadi, yadi yada. That said your butt will be in the wind in the civil suit of the bystander.
My apologies then.
Nothing has been said about a ‘dynamic’ situation. The basic issue is if in a home, the type of home, the wall material, any shared walls (apartment, condo, or townhome) and what might be better to use to avoid penetration of walls and / or doors. The basic issue is if outside, is to know your target, know what is beyond it.
You should move and not stay static. Your bad guy may move also, and in all of that, you should still be aware of your target and what is beyond it.
Everyone may miss… the police miss a lot… .and if you shoot in any timed competition, you will see you miss more than you would like. The issue is, when you or the bad guy are moving, have trigger control, and avoid pulling the trigger if you are not sure of where your rd will go, or if the bad guy is moving, what is behind him.
Does not mean there will not be a miss, and we can hope no innocent is harmed by our shots, but unless you are in an area with no innocents, putting lead in the air, is not the best of options.
Most JHP or SJHP will expand and not pass through center mass, and if they do, much of their energy would already be spent.
Each situation is different. And all we can do is consider variables and scenarios that may or may not cover every conceivable possibility.
Thank you, this is the kind of education I was hoping for.
Dude, Pistols are not magic wands most run moderate speeds with marginal mass otherwise you can’t hold on to them. I have a 45 Win Mag it throws a 3’ fireball out the front of it if launching a 230gr boolit the 300gr boolit is less of a fireball and more brutal to hang on to. I fully expect to get through and through performance with that round but I’m not carrying it for SD only for hunting when I WANT a blood trail. One hole in doesn’t bleed OUT. See how many rounds it takes to put a deer down with a 9mm. No kidding, if your state allows something that small to be used to hunt it is an eye opening experience on terminal velocity effects. Terminal performance is the full arbiter of your self defense choice and I will go on record to say that throwing the rock slow (pistol) means you need the biggest rock you can get. How you hang on to that rock launcher is quite frankly, your problem. Pistols are made to STOP $hit, Rifles are made to KILL $hit. Let your “Stopper” perform its duties at the highest performance level possible.
It’s all about the speed and bullet weight. Light, fast bullets don’t penetrate as well. I’ll use .357 mag as my example. A 110 grain bullet smoking along at 1700 FPS will not penetrate as well as a 180 grain loafing along at 1400. Also, if you don’t reach a certain velocity, at which the bullet was designed for, you won’t get expansion. It is this info that earned .357 mag it’s reputation. A 125 grain bullet, at 1600-1700 FPS would dump most of its kinetic energy on initial impact, resulting in devastating wounds, and little to no pass through. Conversely, a 158 grain .357 at 1500-1600 won expand as much, and will penetrate most human size and analog targets. And, a 180 grain at 1400-1500 will blow through that target like a freight train.