Non Trump supporting gun owners

How was that?

Yes. That is certainly a possibility.

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Absolutely, and unequivocally. I, have faith in the Constitution, and in the systems of coequal government, checks and balances, exchange of power between states and federal, representation with our taxation. It’s why I do vote, why I call and write, and continue to write, my representatives. Sometimes, our struggles help define and make us stronger, more whole and less fractured as people. I hope, we come together stronger too.

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Unfortunately communism as the democrat platform is not hyperbole, but fact. We are not yet a communist country. If you know anything about communism, and I think you do, it is done incrementally, as has been done in America since before WWII. Government control of education, health care, energy and finally divide the classes, Any of this sound familiar, democrats? Socialism is the nice term for communism, fascism, totalitarianism… it’s all the same, control of the populous by the elitist group. The problem is the “useful idiots” won’t be needed when they get in power so, you need to be careful. Shackles or freedom over your own lives, It should be simple for any American.

Another story propagate by the liberal lackeys of the loony left. Trump never gave uranium to the Russians in exchange for speaking fees or donations to the Clintons. President Trump never sent a message to VP saying he’d have more flexibility after the election. President Trump never used military assets to fly billions of dollars to allies of the Russians. Russia is just a pimple on the world’s a**. Putin knows it and so does President Trump. I’m still waiting for some examples of promises that President Trump has not kept. Can’t include any that were blocked by the dems. That’s just examples of obstruction.

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useful how? Like providing military funding and political support to the Ukraine?

I don’t know that I’d consider any nuclear power, particularly Russia a pimple on the butt of the world. More like an inflamed hemorrhoid that needs to be treated occasionally for flare ups.

And the nukes aren’t even the biggest threat right now from the Russians or Chinese, it’s their cyber capabilities that I’m concerned about most these days.

Socialism, is not "… the nice term for communism, racism, totalitarianism… " that is some really, silly, McCarthy era reel to reel propaganda you have right there. The government does not control education, health care, and energy, you’ll be relieved to know that is still firmly in the pockets of robber barons selling the lies that one day you too can don your top hat and monocle and join their wealthy ranks. That would be… Ohhhh one of those “elitist groups” controlling the population as you say, but you won’t recognize it, because they told you to be scared of these monsters under the bed, ‘communism’ and ‘socialism’ even spinning your head until your so confused about what they are that totalitarianism, facism, socialism, communism, all the ism just reads to you as ‘democrat’ and ‘liberal’ and ‘antifa’ and not the actual, elites, the Koch’s, Walton’s, Murdoch’s, and oh, Trump’s.

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Once they get Trumps tax returns Americans will see the extent of Russian influence. What is hidden in the dark will come to light.

They don’t?

The Dept of Edu doesn’t mandate all heavy testing that the kids are doing now days, the States are mandating that?

The Dep of Eng doesn’t mandate where a company can cannot drill for oil or pay ridiculous incentives for people to use “clean energy” that actually causes more pollution than using gas would have?

Our political leaders didn’t sign a bill into law a couple years back that mandated what health benefits an organization could provide it’s employees or be taxed to death, or that each individual citizen had to obtain health insurance?

Want to rethink that? :slight_smile:

You know, I’m so split about this…on the one hand my thoughts are that they are his tax returns and we don’t have a right to know and that if the IRS has not found anything criminal about his returns over all these decades that needs to be good enough for us.

But on the other hand I really would like to have them brought to the public eye as it would definitively show us one way or the other.

I truly hope that what is hidden in the dark doesn’t always come to the light…there are plenty of things that we need to stay in the dark for a variety of reasons.

Well, we agreed on nuanced thought right? I was addressing the claim of communism, which by definition, is state owned property. The state, does not own the property. It was then claimed, well the state controls these things. Again, nuanced, because we’re rational people we can do that. Regulation, is guidance, not a stranglehold. I’ll offer a counter example. Regulations, about water testing for use on crops, was done away with by the Trump administration. As a direct result, the amount of e. Coli and lysteria outbreaks, exposures, and cases has gone up. This also, results in higher medical expenses for people for what was a preventable event, and higher costs for the grocers who suffer loss of product due to the recalls, it works all the way up the chain. Regulations are not KGB agents with AK47s standing watch over the kids taking tests. So, please, don’t try to claim that is the case.

You’re right, the regulations are worse…there are no KGB agents but instead IRS agents.

I didn’t say there should be “no” regulations, there absolutely should be, but when they become so oppressive/restrictive (that stranglehold you mention) whether the Government “owns” that business/property or not is irrelevant as it is certainly “controlling” that business/property. Nuance. :slight_smile:

I think there are cases where that “stranglehold” does exist, so while I’m not proposing full deregulation of everything…I do think a lot less Government in all of our lives would be a good thing and as I mentioned in an earlier post above while we are not in a “socialist/communist” state by definition, we certainly have adopted a number of those tendencies…or so it seems to me.

Also in regards to your example, I’d be curious about your source as according to the CDC the outbreak investigations have remained relatively unchanged over the last 10yrs. https://www.cdc.gov/ecoli/outbreaks.html

2019 - 4
2018 - 3
2017 - 2
2016 - 3
2015 - 2
2014 - 2
2013 -2
2012 - 3
2011 - 4
2010 - 3
2009 - 3

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Your job here is obvious and I don’t think their buying it. Communism (you can call it what you want) is obvious to those who don’t need to be told what to do and aren’t afraid to think for themselves. You don’t have to be a Trump supporter to believe in America and the Constitution. You “say” you believe in the Constitution yet you believe it doesn’t work in this progressive day and age and needs to be corrected. You are not going to get American’s here to believe they should vote for some one that is against the second amendment because they don’t agree with President Trump on some issues. What’s the alternative? Give up their freedoms to some crazed communist, I’m sorry socialist, that’s going to take away their way of life? Tell them how to raise their children, no say in what their taught in school, who to go to for health care, take their money to redistribute the wealth, deplete the military, turn people against the military & Police and each other … is that the alternative, because President Trump isn’t a politician, doesn’t talk like one, doesn’t cater to the lobbyists? That’s reason enough to vote communist? I don’t think so. People here may not agree with all President Trump does or says, but they are Americans and will not vote communist, I’m sorry, socialist.

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Sorry, I said no ones buying it, I think Rick22 is. You got one.

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I don’t have a job here, and you’re rudeness shows. I didn’t tell anyone who to vote for or not to vote for, not did I say anywhere to change the Constitution.

Reminding you all to be Very Very Clear that you are NOT making it personal. Discussion of ideas is excellent if it is done with respect for all parties in the discussion.

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I’m going to go ahead and, ask the thread to be closed. Thanks everyone for your input and responses.

Putting this thread on pause for now. Y’all have a peaceful night.

Interesting conversation here. I’d like to remind everyone of the Community Guidelines.

All viewpoints are welcome here if they’re expressed respectfully. Personal attacks and name calling are not allowed.

Politics are always difficult to discuss - especially when the politicians on both sides are so purposefully divisive.

You do not have to be Republican or Democrat or Socialist or Libertarian to be in the USCCA Online Community. You do have to be able to be respectful.

Please remember we are all here because we want to be the best protectors for our loved ones. We want to learn from each other and share our knowledge. Personal attacks do nothing to help us protect and only serve to make us look bad.

You can have a very intense debate and still be respectful.

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