New Shooters - Electronic Optics or Not

#21

I have never had the privilege of introducing a “gun virgin” to shooting. If I ever do, I think I will start with muzzleloader weapons. I think the need to build each load out of its constituent elements would give a lesson in the fundamental properties of all firearms. (After the Kentucky Longrifle, everything else is mere technology.)

Then we would move on to modern firearms using iron sights. Only after achieving a level of competence with irons would we possibly move on to electronic systems, but in general I recommend iron sights for EDC.

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#22

When I started shooting over 30 years ago, red dots were in their infancy and very expensive, so we just used the factory fitted sights on the hand guns.

Now I’m older, and my eyesight is not what it used to be, I will use any advantage I can get.

One thing about the laser pointer, it’s great for when you need to shoot when you don’t have time to fully aim the gun, but without the proper grip, the recoil does make the gun move much more, so a second shot (if required) may take longer to sight.

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#23

I’m not the most experienced shooter in this forum, but here’s my take:

I spent the first three years of my pistol ownership shooting iron sights with a 9-lb pull, DAO trigger on my SCCY CPX-2. Small gun, long pull, it was tough to master. But master it I did. Earlier this year I purchased a striker-fired Taurus G2C. My accuracy with it is amazing. Not because I’m a great shooter, but rather because I had to be disciplined and develop good habits with my original gun.

Long story short, in my experience I prefer fundamentals first, high-tech later.

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#24

Murphy is alive and well. When you need your weapon the MOST is when you’ll drop it and those fancy electrons will leak out! You might ding your irons but they’ll still be good enough to get the job done. I always start on BASICS, Safety, Sight picture, Squeezing JUST your trigger finger, situational awareness, safety… Electronics can make a good shooter great, but a mediocre shooter will still be mediocre when up against others with electronics. There really are NO shortcuts to Good fundamentals.
Where red-dots really come into their own is for long distance handgun shots. With irons your hold over can block out your target. Even shooting a .22 pistol at gongs 200 yards out there I can still see both my target and my hold-over point. I’m only hitting 6 of 10, but I’ll blame that on age… right? LOL ((Your mileage may vary, some preconditions DO apply!))

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#25

Irons on all of mine, never used an optic…

Put an optic on my AR10, not sure where I got it, if it would survive, or anything but I’ll give it a try in the new year…

With the AR10, I will likely have a scope on it just because of what it is, other than that, Irons on everything else…

I did put a laser on my carbine. Unfortunately I dont have the room to adjust it, maybe one night outside so I can zero it at 50yds but it’s more for effect as the carbine will likely be used more for checking the property in case the dog senses something off.

I am comfortable with lasers and their movement, I’ve had them on paintball guns for years and they dont bother me. I can keep them rather stabile as well. Odds are, I’ll mount one of my high powered flashlights to the carbine as well. It will have more weight like a rifle but it would be frightful to any intruder.

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#26

Electronics will always fail. I would start new shooters on open sights. That way they learn the fundamentals. If they start out with lasers new shooters will end up “chasing the dot”. Muscle memory and proper grip will serve them better. I have a red dot on my rifle but it is a co- witness to my iron sights. Just my two cents.

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#27

Way my red dot is setup. I’m near sighted, so I’m having to consider changing to a variable scope. Don’t want to because trying line up sights with bifocals isn’t fun.

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#28

I can still aim without glasses, but the target is getting harder to see at 50 yds.

#29

Learning to shoot using iron sights is a must for beginners until they master the art of marksmanship. Laser sights are a great next step but cannot or will not replace the ability to place a shot correctly on target. Breathing, trigger squeeze, and stance are key to shooting accurately.

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#30

Welcome to the community Robert!

#31

I too agree in terms of evolution; learn your equipment first as is stock, understand its fundamentals, first and foremost (recoil, using the iron sites, etc.) then get fancier. I, myself, do have laser sites on both of my 3.3"/5.25" .45s. I like the extra sexiness and perceived show of force if confronted; will they become a difference maker in a home-/ any-defense situation? Not necessarily at closer ranges (21-foot Rule) IF you are trained and seasoned with fully understanding and being comfortable with one’s equipment. However, they certainly add advantage at longer ranges. Finally, one must consider their holster prior to adding an accessory such as this to the rail as most will not fit and horribly affect draw if not considered…

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#32

Depends upon what is your purpose. For defensive shooting, a flash sight picture is best achieved (IMO) with iron sites. Red Dots will seduce you to find the perfect shot, trying to find your dot, and causing unnecessary delay. In general, the basics are best learned with iron sights…however for older eyes those Red Dots sure can be a great help.

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#33

Especially if cowitnessed with irons

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#34

I agree with you. Get proficient with iron sights and then move to a red dot or holographic, but keep shooting with irons too. You never know when that battery could go out or the electronic sight could malfunction.

#35

I’ve never had the batteries on my Trijicon night sights die in me. Every other thing I own that uses batteries has failed at least once. I don’t want that to happen at midnight in a parking lot.

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#36

I am not a new shooter but I can offer input to the discussion. 60 years ago on the farm, we hadn’t ever even heard “optic”. My Dad taught me with a .22 single-shot rifle with Iron sights and we used empty tin cans for targets. In 1966 the military made us qualify with iron sights on the almost new M-16, prior to being assigned to 'Nam. In 'Nam I learned to shoot a .38 revolver, a “grease gun” and a 12 gauge riot-gun firing 00 buck. I shot Expert that first and then every time I had to re-qualify until I retired after 20 years in the military. Finally, 33 years after I retired I bought a G2c to help protect my wife and me. Went to a range and fired a gun for the first time in 33 years. Took the head off the target 25 yards downrange, with the first magazine. Teach newbies using iron sights. Retired MSgt.

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#37

Personally, I don’t think electro-optics belong in the new shooter’s repertoire. As Rob Pincus points out in DSF II and a million other places, lasers are “tertiary” aiming devices. The new shooter should become competent with iron sights and then master intuitive, unsighted fire used in defensive shooting. You can introduce lasers or red dots much later. By doing so, the student lessens the risk of picking up bad habits that would interfere with the fundamentals.

Further, when bringing EO and lasers into the suite of gear, there are inherent limitations and complications. A bouncing laser dot is a distraction when trying to focus on the target. A laser is sighted for one distance and once distance only. You have to figure out how to compensate for differences. Dead batteries and breakages add more stress and confusion to the actions needed in a dynamic, critical situation. I say KISS.

That said, I would certainly look at these options if a student came to me with vision problems or some other disability that hindered their ability to become competent in the fundamentals of sighted and unsighted fire.

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#38

“Never bet your life on a set of batteries”… .

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#39

Lasers have their place, particularly as a tool of intimidation but they can also cause you to lock your gaze on the dot instead of the target and hurt your accuracy because you end up chasing the dot trying to get perfectly steady.

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