Mall scenario

All 5 malls in my area have no firearm sticker on all entryway

Tell the shooter to stop as it is illegal to bring in a firearm (donā€™t you see the sign) as as that mayor in Wisconsin recently said that the shooter would have only obeyed the laws none of this would have happened.

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I saw a video of an active shooter in a Walmart type store. A guy drew his concealed handgun and pursued the shooter, apparently intending to eliminate the threat. The thing the would be hero missed is that the shooter had a female accomplice who entered the store separately and ended up behind him. She shot the good guy in the back. That got my attention and made me realize how many things can go wrong when attempting to defend the public.

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hmm.

The mall closest to me does not have thatā€¦ or did not. Of course, I generally only go to the sporting goods store and one other store and enter both from the parking lot and do not walk through the mall .

I will need to look again.

This is why we ā€œAccessā€ as part of our training. Yes, this is a well known video and a good training tool now. Good reminder @Randall42.

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If the situation is more like a robbery gone bad, then the criminal wants to get out with his life intact, preferably with whatever he stole. In that case, heā€™s not going to be expecting resistance, much less someone shooting back at him. Thatā€™s the kind of criminal who will be caught off guard.

I think thatā€™s different than the mall situation we were given , which sounded to me more like a shooter who wants to take out as many innocent people as possible before eventually being killed by police. If heā€™s wearing body armor, then heā€™s expecting to be shot. And if thatā€™s the case, whatā€™s my 9mm going to do against his body armor? Not much, besides get me killed.

Again though, too many variables to say for sure one way or the other. I can only answer for myself that it would be to get to safety if I can. But if cornered or cut off, heā€™d find himself with a fight on his hands.

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In 2017 church massacre the murderer wore body armor and fled once confronted. The good guy had a rifle though.

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I used to like malls as a younger man but the older Iā€™ve grown, I had to add malls to my ā€˜Places to Avoidā€™ list.

In the given scenario, my response would be the same whether Iā€™m alone or with my wife & kids. I would look for the nearest exit on the 2nd floor. If thatā€™s not available, look for cover/concealment inside the closest store until LEOs arrive. It would bother me to leave so many innocent folks to their fate but this :earth_americas: is a crazy place. By that I mean I wouldnā€™t want to be mistaken as the shooter or an accomplice to the shooter. Multiple ā€œgood guysā€ have been misidentified & killed by LE over the past few years.

My mentor taught me that part of this journey as a man & responsible gun owner, is to rightly discern when to fight & when to avoid it. :100:

:v:t5:

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I have not been to an indoor mall in maybe, 10-15 years. Wait, I take that back, I had to go into a mall 2 years ago, just on the outskirts to get a suit from The Menā€™s Warehouse for a wedding. I donā€™t think that counts as I went in and out their external door.

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I think hypotheticals like this one are great to consider. The discussion has been useful to me ā€“ although my current response to this kind of event is set on immediate evasion and escape (with my family members and/or such bystanders as I can assist in getting away from the scene right now).

Given the one floor separation in the scenario it is unlikely I would draw my pistol at all, although I would definitely shift my scan and level of alert to look for other shooters possibly on the second floor. I think in the evasion sequence I would avoid any activity except getting clear of the threat - all focus on movement and potentially engaging another threat or threats on the way clear.

The point about not knowing for sure who was shooting whom is a critical one (although if one stuck around itā€™s possible one could work it out).

As Iā€™m evading/escaping, if I have my pistol openly in my hand there is a real risk of getting shot by mall security, off duty (or on duty) LEOs, or another concealed carrier. These possibilities suggest not displaying any weapons until absolutely required. (Potentially ā€“ carry pistol in hand under a folded jacket ā€“ or something that will conceal but enable more rapid aiming and firing than having to draw from a holster).

One of the unfortunate realities of carrying is that if we ever shoot, we can anticipate legal prosecution at some level ā€“ perhaps the least being very expensive lawsuit(s) on the part of the active shooter or the active shooterā€™s survivors.
Depending on the state or locality, immediate confinement (jail time) could be likely. (Grateful for USCCA coverage).
The possible legal and financial consequences of even the most clearly legitimate shoot could include the financial destruction of my family and future ā€“ including becoming less employable or unemployable in my fields.

As I currently see it, my primary responsibilities in scenarios like the one being considered here are to:

(1) Avoid being shot (even getting shot ā€œjust a littleā€ can be crippling for a lifetime),

(2a) If I am ā€œaloneā€ evade and escape ā€“ I owe it to my family to survive, I have no other obligation to anyone else that would supersede this objective [see Note 1 below]

(2b) If I have family or friends with me at the time, get my family/friends out,

(3) Can I successfully deliver anyone else out of the situation while also accomplishing 1 and 2? ā€“ do it,

(4) After escape - connect with 911.

(5) [Truly last resort] If I personally and/or my family members are under direct and immediate threat ā€“ make the shot.

Having these things in a mostly preprogrammed set of responses assists in deciding and moving with little or no hesitation. In the cases of 1 and 2a/2b. swift response seems essential.

[Note 1: This decision is a difficult one. In the relatively distant past I was in roles and circumstances where my primary responsibility was to move towards the hazard(s) and deal with them regardless of potential injury or death to myself, and in those circumstances that meant I had agreed that guaranteeing survival to take care of my family was not the top priority. Of course, at that time my family was nowhere near me or the situations demanding that slate of priorities. My life was also very well insuredā€¦]

[Peripheral, possibly relevant dim recollection - A case I remember of a concealed carrier being in a mall shooting spree, drawing his pistol, concealing behind a pillar or in an alcove (I forget which, but NOT behind real cover), and preparing to ambush the active shooter. When the shooter passed by his position, the good guy didnā€™t think he could just shoot this person whoā€™d already shot a bunch of others but spoke to the shooter and so, alerted the shooter to his presence. The very amped up shooter didnā€™t hesitate at all but performed an instant and perfectly executed snapshot and maimed the good guy for life. And in that moment the bad guy didnā€™t get shot.]

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well , if feasible, will engage to stop the shooter , i will also announce and show my badge in the after math and call 911 on cell. if not feasible to engage shooter(s) for various reasons , i will be on cell phone giving as much information as possible on the shooter(s) and do my best to get close enough to engage asap. but, you must remember murphys law! yeah, something will go wrong!

As I am running to the nearest and safest exit, I would take/warn as many people as possible. I would also be calling 911. I will qualify the last statement by saying, as the situation and scenario change, so will my actions.

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Shawn,
the malls by me are gun free zones. I stay out of them to avoid the situation you describe.

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They have free guns? Iā€™d go to a mall for a sale like that!

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My opinion is with the gentleman who suggested throwing down objects to possibly distract the gunman and the suggestion made by the marine Shadow 2f5. As far as the quote from the Mayfield mayor, is he that dumb to think a stinking sign is going to change a killer who is intent on killing innocent people. What a stupid remark from him.

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One of the reasons I got out of Milwaukee is fools like this mayor. If only criminals would obey the law there wouldnā€™t be crime. For the love of God I wonder if he has these no guns allowed signs around his home

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You know, I keep thinking about thisā€¦

Witnessing the mayhem and knowing that by utilizing my skill set could save a little girl, a mom, somebodies daddy or grandpa, risking my life or maybe even losing my life especially in this time of charity and Christmas, , yes, I very well may engage the threat.

Iā€™d have to live with the thought of what my inaction could have let happen.

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If they worked so wellā€¦

They should install NO CRIME ZONE signsā€¦ and be crime free

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I am sure glad there are people like you out there
Yes protecting our selfs is our own responsibility as many have stated but what about those who cannot or are not allowed to have means to defend themselves from such a threat. Child or teenagers not allowed to own weapon an elderly woman who canā€™t hold a firearm or a person who had their guns took by a unjust red flag law.

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What? The shooter didnā€™t obey the law against guns in the mall? Get outta town!!! I thought gun laws stopped all gun violence? You know, like the drug laws stopped all drugs. Oh wait; maybe he didnā€™t see the sign. Yeah, thatā€™s it.