Let’s talk about the Odds

[Dave17]

@David237

We have no way of knowing exactly how any of us will respond (as also mentioned earlier), we only hope that we’ll be able to respond with dispatch and resolve.

The vast majority of us, definitely, but @Johnnyq60 and @Zavier_D have had some experience with bad situations, and I suspect more that have not posted. Your training will “kick in”. I had a couple of incidents that resulted in nothing, too, but it made me aware that I would likely react as trained if the SHTF. As Johnnyq60 mentioned, making the perp(s) know that you are aware of him/her (they/them? ) and taking defensive measures shows that you are not an unwitting, easy victim and are ready to fight - exactly what most criminals do not want.

Knives, even sheathed, put fear into people, they are a great deterrent even when not meant to be… don’t ask me how I know…

[Zavier_D]

@Dave17

It’s sort of ironic, that as I was reading this my House Alarm got triggered. I immediately got out of bed, put ear pro on and was armed at the head of the stairs in less than 8 seconds Giving instructions to my wife and the alarm company. While I made sure my wife was safe and I was positioned to keep anyone from coming up into the living area.

Turned out it was a kitten we had taken in. Had climbed the curtain and hit the window hard enough to set the alarm off.

So yeah I felt a bit foolish, but if the alarm goes off again I am going to respond exactly the same way, as I have trained.

[Forensic_Wow]

I also have some experience to add, though it may not be the best to admit on here, but I’m going to give it a go.

So if you don’t know me, which majority of you do, I’ve been robbed at a gas station 3 times and your nerves get to you, when I first started carrying and this may be a result of the PTSD, there was a couple times during Halloween when people come with masks, and I’m alone on my night shifts, where my adrenaline kicks in, and it’s an automatic response to draw my gun.

Now I never drew my firearm, I was in the process, and was hidden behind a rack one of the times this happened, and I had to put the brakes on, and just cover my shirt.

But I’ve used the opportunity to calm down, and use it as a training experience. So if you’re stressed, and you’ve associated threat, with your draw, when you see a threat, you will most likely draw without even knowing it.

[David237]

@Alexander8

Do not allow yourself to be distracted, as others pointed out, a robbery may be pretext to kidnapping or execution, maybe it is initiation day in gangland. Crank up your fight or flight accordingly.

This is certainly a real challenge, not that others aren’t, it’s just that there is seldom anything more dangerous and scarier than a “wannabe” gang member. They are unhinged, sneaky, and will virtually stop at nothing to prove a point. They are committed. Thus, so should we be about vigilance and resolve. Win the fight by any means necessary. Remembering always, that a threat is a threat, don’t try to humanize a threat. Why do I say this? Because sometimes the threat has a very tender appearance…I won’t elaborate any further.

[Mike164]

@David237

the threat has a very tender appearance

To your point, we had a pretty good discussion about shark bumping a while back.

[David237]

@Dave17

Knives, even sheathed, put fear into people, they are a great deterrent even when not meant to be… don’t ask me how I know…

LOL. No one in their right mind would want to be subjected to the skills of “Edward Scissor Hands, or Mr. Slice N. Dice.” LOL. But then again, criminal activity does not represent “right minded.” so there is that.

[Zavier_D]

@Mike164

To your point, we had a pretty good discussion about shark bumping a while back.

@Johnnyq60

I think that his response was dead on. You can often defuse a situation just by acknowledging that you see them.

[David237]

vigilance and resolve.

[Zavier_D]

@Dave17

Knives, even sheathed, put fear into people, they are a great deterrent even when not meant to be… don’t ask me how I know…

As anyone who has looked at my EDC in the thread about EDC. I carry 6 knives. 2 rescue knives for breaking car windows, and cutting seat belts, 2 self defense blades, and 2 very small blades for opening packages and such.

This is just my opinion, not a fact, just my opinion.

When you are facing a knife, you know you are going to be cut, or stabbed. There is no wondering. Is it loaded? How many rounds? Or ok he is out of ammo. A knife doesn’t have to take any particular skill to use. Does training with a knife help? Yes, but there is a visceral connection with a knife.

1. You have to be close, so you know it’s going to be bloody. That it’s going to be messy. With a gun you can shoot from a distance, it can be clean, even impersonal.

That is not the case with a knife. You know deep down that a knife wielding attacker is willing to get into CQB range. Where they can smell you, it’s primal and cuts straight through all of your civilized habits.

One of the worst things I’ve seen in a movie was near the end of “Saving Private Ryan” when the German soldier killed the American soldier. It was close, personal, and deeply disturbing.

[Ouade5]

@Zavier_D

I carry 6 knives.

Holy Cow. Is this your Facebook profile?

[Zavier_D]

No, I use Gun Control. So I have both hands on my one firearm.

[David237]

That’s right, brother. My guns are controlled at all times.

[David38]

Odds or Probabilities or Likelihood? Very different things.

[GrayMan]

After reading through this thread some truisms came to mind:

Situational Awareness: If your S.A. is good, chances are, you will never get to the situation where you are on your knees, at the mercy of a criminal. I used to be a Corrections Officer, and my duties had me trying to keep order while outnumbered 48:1 by those who have proven/been proven to have committed various crimes bad enough to get them into prison. Some advice: never give a threat your back. If you can be approached from the rear without knowing it, you are in danger. In the prison, if a prisoner was within arm’s reach, that was considered an “assault” and the prisoner could be written up for it. Prisoners don’t care about being written up. If they want to get to you, nothing is going to stop them. So you stay out of anyone’s arm’s reach. When in a dangerous or unfamiliar situation you watch people’s faces, eyes, gait, clothing, and anything else that conveys emotion or intent. That brings me to my next topic:

Profiling: Again, when in an unfamiliar (or even familiar) or dangerous place, always “read the room” and your gut will tell you whether you should be in Condition Yellow, Orange, or Red. And as General Mattis said (or what has been attributed to him as saying) “Be respectful but have a plan to kill everyone in the room.” If someone sets off your “gut” or just looks like trouble, you better have a plan to neutralize that person. Hopefully you won’t have to, but having that plan is better than being taken by surprise (“Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.”) Make sure you don’t get punched in the face. I take the train to and from work every day and I do a very quick assessment on everyone in the same train-car as me. I try to stay in a neutral stance with the train door behind me and my bike in front of me, that can be used as a shield or a weapon.

Mass Shooters: history and after-action reports tell us that most mass shooters do not expect anyone to fight back, and when they do, the shooter tends to move on to easier targets that won’t fight back. Also, when confronted by police, the shooters tend to off themselves. This tells us that shooters are cowards who don’t want, and cannot sustain anything approaching a fair fight. So fight back. Throw chairs, heavy objects, anything that you can use as a weapon. Hiding in a place with only one entrance/exit is just waiting to die.

Crowds/riots: These cannot be predicted, so avoid them if possible. Get away as soon as possible. If you cannot, and have to fight, that is when having at least two extra magazines comes in handy. If I am carrying two extra magazines, that means I have 37 shots. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to be #1, #2, or any number of people who have been shot trying to take down an armed person. Who wants to be #38? Are you going to wait around to see how many others in the mob get shot before trying YOUR luck? I don’t think so. The human survival instinct will eventually override the mob mentality.

As many others have posted, if you end up on your knees, having been put there by an attacker, you were either negligent in your situational awareness and preventative measures, or you were taken entirely by surprise and force (think shock & awe) and you’re now at the mercy of your attacker. The only thing you have left is to lunge from your knees and hope to take down your attacker. If you can, that’s where your ground fighting skills come into play. Hopefully you have some.

[Robert1364]

A good lesson can be learned from the story of Noah and the Ark.

If you have to fight; fight like you’re the third monkey… and it’s starting to rain.

[Bailey4]

@Alexander8

If you can win confrontation with the robber by running away – do it.

If you can create a tactical distraction by giving them your wallet or car keys – do it. It is for distraction only, do not expect the robber to go away! If the robber is distracted – use it to gain tactical advantage, increase distance/run away, arm yourself, do whatever increases your chances of survival. Manage the situation smartly, e.g. don’t draw on drawn gun. Do not assume that someone who leaves the life of crime and trained in violent crime for a long time, is less capable than you.

Do not allow yourself to be distracted, as others pointed out, a robbery may be pretext to kidnapping or execution, maybe it is initiation day in gangland. Crank up your fight or flight accordingly.

I think that its a little hard to give someone advice about a violent circumstance that has countless nuances that are specific to each individual event. Generally speaking, people probably need to make some decision about their fight/dont fight decision tree.

[BobbyJean]

I can not say for any one but for my self and I AM just saying if any one OUTHER than LAW ENFORCEMENT tell me to do anything at GUN POINT no matter if they are going to Take My LIFE they are Going To Have to KILL ME I BLEAVE IF SOMEONE IS POINTING A GUN AT ME I HAVE ONLY MY LIFE TO KEEP NOT LOSE . Because I BLEAVE if I do not kill them I am all ready DEAD SO I’M GOING TO R,A,T, A,S,P, and pray I win back my LIFE at LEAST I DID NOT JUST GIVE MY LIFE AWAY Bobby Jean I like every one I meet and their is not many people like me left I will give the shirt off my back to anyone that needs it MY LIFE YOU WILL HAVE TO TAKE IT its not FREE

[BobbyJean]

GrayMan. Where in the world did you get a train and you can ride on a train wow we don’t get to get on the train I just had to wait for a long one to go by so I could just get home where in the world do they let you get to ride on a train in all my life I never got to get a ride on a real train my friends have airplanes and I hate to fly but I would love to ride a train is it Amtrak o dose your bike have a engine or pedals and not to be nosy where in the world can you really ride a train with a bike

[BobbyJean]

Does it cost a lot of money for a ride for just a little ways can anyone have a ride kool Bobby Jean

[GrayMan]

Here in Central Florida, we have Sunrail → https://sunrail.com/

Bicycles and electric scooters are allowed onboard, and each train car has bike racks for your use.