I hope USCCA Covers this in a YouTube Video

First, I’m not sure why the media has to make this about race (except, that’s what they do). But, more importantly, I’d like to see one of those USCCA breakdowns on this. According to this article, this old lady had someone pounding on her door yelling at her and threatening to kill her. She was convicted of manslaughter. Apparently, the jury suggests that she should have let the assailant come through the door, before firing. While I see that argument, she’s old. I don’t know how far the distance is between her front door and … well, anything else in her home. I know someone can cross 21-feet in about 2 seconds. Anyway, it’s a great topic for a video discussion:

[White woman found guilty of manslaughter with a firearm for fatally shooting Black neighbor amid dispute over kids playing]

MSN)

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I hope she appeals.

White woman found guilty of manslaughter with a firearm for fatally shooting Black neighbor amid dispute over kids playing

Story by Ray Sanchez and Chelsea Bailey, CNN

• 51m • 6 min read

[image]

Defendant Susan Lorincz at her trial Tuesday in Ocala, Florida.

Defendant Susan Lorincz at her trial Tuesday in Ocala, Florida.© Doug Engle/Ocala Star-Banner/AP

AFlorida jury on Friday found a 60-year-old White woman guilty of manslaughter with a firearm for fatally shooting an unarmed Black mother during an ongoing dispute over children playing near her home.

The panel had considered whether Susan Lorincz was justified under the state’s controversial self-defense laws for shooting through the front door of her central Florida apartment last June and killing 35-year-old Ajike “AJ” Owens, who had been knocking on Lorincz’s door. The trial tested the state’s Stand Your Ground law, which allows people to use deadly force in self-defense in certain situations.

Lorincz was charged with manslaughter with a firearm and pleaded not guilty. She faces up to 30 years in prison, according to State Attorney Bill Gladson’s office. No sentencing date has been set.

Lorincz, wearing a purple sweater over a dark dress, stood and showed no emotion as the verdict was read and the jury polled. Friends and members of the victim’s family wept in the front row.

“This has been a long journey to get to this day, to get to this verdict,” the victim’s mother, Pamela Dias, told reporters outside the Ocala courthouse.

“I am very pleased with the jury, the prosecution, the verdict … I find some peace with that verdict. I feel that although my daughter is gone forever, the children’s mom is gone forever, we’ve achieved some justice for Ajike. My heart is a little lighter and we’re now on the path to healing.”

A family representative said the victim’s four children were still in counseling and now it was up to the court to impose the maximum penalty.

Ben Crump, an attorney for the victim’s family, said they were “profoundly grateful” for the guilty verdict.

“AJ Owens was a devoted mother whose life was tragically cut short, leaving her children, including a young son who witnessed this horrific act, to carry the burden of her loss,” he said in a statement.

“While nothing can erase the pain they’ve endured, today’s decision sends a clear message that senseless violence will be met with accountability.”

After the verdict, a member of the defense team, Amanda Sizemore, declined to comment.

After deliberating for about half an hour, jurors asked to rehear two 911 calls Lorincz made that night. In one from before the shooting, Lorincz told a dispatcher she was “really scared,” with little emotion in her voice. “Are you or anyone else in danger right now?” the dispatcher asked. “I locked my door,” she responded.

During the second 911 call, which took place after the shooting, Lorincz sounds as if she is crying, her voice barely audible. She said someone tried breaking down her door and that she fired at the door. The jury, which deliberated about two and half hours, later asked another question about damage to the door to Lorincz’s home.

‘She has no duty to retreat’

In his closing argument, prosecutor Rich Buxman told jurors Lorincz admitted pulling the trigger and killing Owens.

“It wasn’t an accidental situation. It wasn’t a situation where she slipped and the gun accidentally went off and shot the door and struck Ms. Owens,” Buxman said. “That’s not what we have here. She intentionally fired it. There’s no doubt that the defendant intentionally committed an act, which caused the death of Ajike Owens.”

Buxman said Lorincz acted with “utter disregard for the life of others.”

“She pointed a loaded firearm towards a door, towards a person that she knew was there in the opposite side of the door and intentionally pulled the trigger. That shows a reckless disregard for human life,” he told jurors.

In her closing argument, Sizemore told jurors the case is one of perception.

“The constitution of our country embodies the right to be able to defend ourselves,” said Sizemore, whose remarks followed the prosecution’s closing argument. “The law demands that we assess the reasonableness of that perception, not from the comfort of a courtroom, but we have to take ourselves back to the perspective of the moment itself.”

Under Florida law, Sizemore said, citizens have the right to defend themselves in the face of imminent danger. “She has no duty to retreat, and she can stand her ground when she is in her dwelling if she is faced with imminent danger,” she said of Lorincz.

Sizemore described Lorincz as an older woman with medical issues who lived alone in a troubled neighborhood when one night she was “startled by a barrage of screaming, profanities and banging on her door.”

“In that circumstance, it’s what Susan Lorincz reasonably believed was necessary to prevent – that’s a very important word, prevent. The law does not say that you have to wait to get punched or attacked before you can do something. You can use deadly force to prevent someone from coming into your home and hurting you or attacking you,” Sizemore said.

“So how do we decide whether somebody is justified in using deadly force?” the defense lawyer asked.

“You must consider the circumstances at the time the force was used – all of it. The fact that she’s in her home. She’s alone. It’s nighttime. Her knowledge of Ajike Owens and her past interactions with her. The noise level, with the pounding and the screaming of the profanities.”

Lorincz decided to not testify at her trial

While the defense has maintained Lorincz had “no choice” but to shoot, Buxman countered that line of reasoning Friday morning, saying in order for the defendant to lawfully use deadly force, the threat to her life “must be imminent.”

“It had to be ready to happen. It had to be staring her in the face such as she had to act at that moment to protect her life,” the prosecutor said in his closing remarks.

“If Ms. Owens would somehow have managed to bust through this locked, dead bolted metal door, enter her house and start coming at her, the defendant may have had a right to shoot … but that’s not the situation we have here.”

On Thursday, Lorincz told the court, after consulting her attorneys, she had decided not to testify. The defense rested after calling expert witnesses on ballistics and police training who testified about where Lorincz was standing when she opened fire and her state of mind at the time of the shooting.

A day earlier, jurors heard testimony from Marion County Sheriff’s Detective Ryan Stith, the lead investigator in the case. Prosecutors asked Stith to read a letter Lorincz reportedly wrote to Owens’ four children after he informed her she would be charged in Owens’ death.

“I am so, so sorry for your loss,” Stith read to the court. “I never meant to kill your mother. I was terrified your mom was going to kill me. I shot out of fear.”

Outside the courthouse, Dias told reporters before the verdict was announced she struggled to maintain her composure throughout the trial.

“‘Difficult’ is putting it very mildly,” Dias said. “The amount of emotions, the disgust, the anguish, the pain – to sit there literally feet away from the woman who took my daughter’s life … I have to dig deep within my strength, my faith to hold it all together.”

In the video of her first interrogation, shown to jurors Wednesday, Lorincz tells detectives she’d previously argued with Owens about her children playing loudly and leaving toys outside her home. But she tells police the situation escalated on June 2, 2023, after she confronted the children about the noise and threw their roller skates.

Lorincz tells detectives she called the police that evening to report neighborhood children had threatened to kill her. She says dispatchers told her to lock her door and officers were on the way.

But before police could arrive, Lorincz tells detectives, Owens began “banging on my door” and saying, “I’m going to kill you.”

“She bangs so hard it looked like my door was going to fly off,” Lorincz said in the video. “And I just, I panicked and I was like, ‘Oh my god, she’s really going to kill me this time.’ You know? And so, I don’t even remember picking the gun up, I just remember shooting.”

CNN’s Joe Sutton and Maxime Tamsett contributed to this report.

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I hear you.

In my looking at “the title” alone:

It’s like that writer of that piece is deliberately instigating between races. It’s wrong (in poor taste, and vulgar).

We ought teach our children that we can get along, that not all persons act racists, but when they do, it’s not always white towards black, but even other races do partake. And we need to teach our children - that is not cool.

I did not read in to the actual shooting and the level of its justification, but if a perpetrator is yelling threat to life, pounding on the door, the home dweller being elderly, that I hope counts for a certain level of defense, but worth scrutiny.

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Ben Crump has an estimated net worth of $10 million is so so so Proud to have stuck it to another White Person.

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Isn’t that what biden stated one should do in self-defense? The defense attorney should have put biden’s video and words into evidence proving she was justified. :sunglasses:

Tough situation. We know we are not “allowed” to shoot through a door, but I can’t imagine what she was mentally going through knowing if her neighbor got in, she would be killed. As stated, there apparently was enough “bad blood” between them that the neighbor was screaming and pounding on her door.

There was no indication in what you posted as to the timeline of her first call and her second. How quickly did the police respond? I guess the only way to get the police to do their jobs is to tell them you believe you heard shots fired (not stating you nor another actually fired any shots) and the person at your door is enraged and trying to get in.

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If the door was not broken open to the point to gain entry one should not just shoot through a door regardless, if you can’t see what’s on the other side of the door don’t shoot through a locked door, and that is what got this woman the conviction that she got.

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I read the article and an article from another source. She knew who was on the other side of the door, she knew it wasn’t a cordial visit, they had a history. I personally wouldn’t have shot through the door but in this case she knew the nature of the threat and could have very well been afraid for her life, without seeing the person face to face.

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I’m not sure if there is anything to be covered by USCCA. Unless Susan Lorincz is/was USCCA’s Customer…

If you review whole incident you may easily find out that claiming her shooting a self-defense was really a long shot.

She threw a skate-roller at 10 years old Owen’s son. I’m not surprised Owens came to her door screaming “I’m going to kill you”… I would probably add “biach” being in her position. Doesn’t mean it’s a threat worth killing, especially when the danger was separated by the front door.

This case is another example of bad understanding why we carry and when we can use the firearm. The fact we can legally possess doesn’t mean we can shoot anytime we feel any danger. My guess is that Susan Lorincz never attended any class where Instructor or attorney explained legality of shooting in self defense.

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Well, there’s the missing piece of information.

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Sometimes people make it so easy.

I certainly would not have done that. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. No one is stating she is “justified”, only that she had other issues with the mother. The mother should not have been pounding on the door at night, screaming she was going to kill her. I can understand a person being fearful of another, knowing what that other person is willing and capable of doing - I have seen it.

Fear is mentally debilitating, and impacts one’s physical health. Remember many years ago the spate of abused women killing their boyfriends and husbands while sleeping? Many were declared not guilty.

[edit] From the Tampa Bay Times:

Lorincz said in the interview she had been harassed for most of the three years she lived in the neighborhood.

prosecutor Rich Buxman had said there was no evidence that Owens posed an imminent physical threat to Lorincz but came to the defendant’s house after her children complained Lorincz had allegedly thrown roller skates and an umbrella at them amid a long-running annoyance at their boisterous play outside.

An autopsy found Owens weighed about 290 pounds, making her much larger as well as younger than Lorincz, and the two had previous confrontations.

“She can defend herself,” said Amanda Sizemore, an assistant public defender. “She had a split second to make a decision whether or not to fire her weapon.”

The county court clerk’s office said in an email that eight Black people were among the 70 in the initial jury pool. In contrast, 49 were white and 10 were listed as Hispanic, two as Asian and one as “other,” the clerk’s office said, based on records provided by the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles.

Ocala is about 80 miles northwest of Orlando in Central Florida. Marion County’s Black population is about 12%, according to census figures.

I saw this on YouTube. Watch the video

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Nothing is missing there. You can read, watch and follow the whole case.

I’m far away from judging people who want to defend themselves… but this case is not tough for proper judgment.

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In this case there was no stupid games. Emotions are very bad advisor.

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The narrative is quite racially skewed, the narrator calling her a neighborhood “karen” and that she was protected by the law. She was arrested, charged, prosecuted and convicted of murder.

An incident would show how evil she was. She is heard explaining how the kids were yelling and screaming at her as she was getting out of her truck. The mother than came over stating she would “rip her a-- out” and beat her up. She then asked the mother do you see the no trespassing sign? Get off my porch.

The CC transcript is full of errors. Nowhere has she used any racial descriptions, nor slurs, in her interactions with police nor in the interview, yet the narrator is calling her a racist. Police mention in the interview that the neighbors around heard the mother “very loudly” speaking (aka yelling/screaming) outside the woman’s home.

I listened to 35 minutes of it, I don’t have time to finish watching right now, but notihing so far has indicated it was racially motivated. She used poor judgment for sure, and she has been convicted for that act.

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And that was the stupid game. She came over to the house, pounded on the door, yelling and screaming, “calling her out” because she wanted to beat her up and/or kill her. Stupid game, stupid prize. The woman was not justified in shooting through the door, regardless of what biden says is justified.

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That is the reason I posted the video brother @Dave17 so that people can watch and judge for themselves. I did not see anything racially motivated just bad emotions and bad decision making on behalf of both parties.

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:ok_hand: exactly. Just very bad situational judgement and luck on self control. If you know you cannot win the fight (any kind - physical, verbal, mental) you just don’t fight. You need to find another option to get what you want. It’s not easy, but that’s why people end up in prison.

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Seems equality is a big deal until there is a crime committed then equality goes out the window, Ben Crump comes along and Everything is about Race. Sad commentary on America and Americans.

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It’s so easy for the likes of the Ben Crumps in the world to JUDGE!
(Besides sounding like the Racist he probably is)
Fat Bank accounts, good security systems, Gated Community, he is
miles away from Trailer parks and Apartment living where some are forced to cohabitate with the Lunatic public in Close Quarters Existence.
'She should have retreated, she shouldn’t have fired, she blah blah blah… YOU WEREN’T THERE! Bennie!.
A fragile (60) years old who looks like about (100) lbs soaking wet vs. an angry neighbor (with tons of bad blood between them it seems) Outweighs her by double (at least) and she is manically pounding on this Woman’s door in the night time (fear is ramped up during night time incidents) Screaming she’s going to kill her… What? Just let her in? discuss the issues pragmatically over Tea?, Maybe call Laurie Lightfoot in to mediate a truce? Hardly.
What this incident shows is the glaring lack of training on Ms. Lornicz part. She bought a Gun (out of fear) probably, no training, she’s scared, she shot instead of waiting until big mama burst through the door. But fear doesn’t wait.

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