How to keep from shooting each other

I don’t believe anyone I know would be a threat to my life… :sunglasses:

1 Like

At least, let’s hope not!

1 Like

Interesting and helpful point.

Great “food for thought”. Saw a fella wearing one on — in a completely “Blue blood” region. Talk about guts on his part. Of course I said hello to him.

As Leader of the Security Ministry, this is what we have developed with the help of local Law Enforcement and training that we have received from FEMA and the USCCA.

We follow the FEMA Protocol for Incident Command.
We are trained in NIMS (National Incident Management Systems)

There is only one Incident Commander and that person has Ultimate Authority until relieved by either Local Law Enforcement or Federal Law Enforcement.

All Team Members are known to the whole Church Body.
There is no visual identification of Team Members.
The Incident Command Structure establishes specific duties.

The Incident Commander takes control of the scene and is the only person with authority to assign and coordinate personal and material. Every Church member knows who that person is. Three people are fully trained in this position.

Every member of the Church is given the opportunity to be a part of the Security Ministry. Once they become a member, they must all take the same training and agree to follow the Federal Protocol for Incident Command. If they choose to not be a member, they all understand that it is the Security Ministry that will handle the situations as they arise. If they see something that concerns them, they are to pass that information along to one of the Security Team members. They are responsible to the Security Members and follow their instructions whenever a situation develops. In most cases, this means that they will watch for a Security Team Member to tell them if they are to cover in place or to exit. If they are told to exit, then they will follow the directions of the Security Team Member closest to them. That Team Member will have a flashlight to help guide them along.

We train regularly as teams and with the entire church. Local Law Enforcement shows up regularly to evaluate and make suggestions. We have coordinated with FEMA personal that are extremely willing to help us with this process. The entire Church is envolved with the process and seems to not only enjoy the training, they are very thankful and take it very seriously.

We strive for peaceful resolution of every situation as we are first a Church and our purpose is to serve the community and those who come to us in need. Our mission is to Shepherd the Flock among us. There are not many places any more where someone can turn to for help when their world is in trouble. We refuse to let the world keep us for doing this work.

I would suggest that you contact your local Emergency Management Agency. They are more than ready to help you with many free Federeal Programs and Training. C.E.R.T. (Community Emergency Response Teams), the Medical Reserve Corp, and the Emergency Management Institute offer extensive training for all of these programs. And it is FREE! They will provide not only training, but resources as well. They also have access to Federal Funds and Grants for all Faith Based Institutions. FREE MONEY!!! These are the same programs and training that the Federal Government requires all local law enforcement, fire, and medical facilities to be trained in. It is good stuff, check it out!

Finally, the USCCA has been truly helpful with their training and material. You need to take full advantage of everything that they offer. All their stuff is very high quality and very well thought out. If you are serious about yor own personal safety, and you must be otherwise you would not be here, then you must continue to train to meet the responsibility that you have assumed. To do otherwise is foolishness at the very best. At worse, you will end up shooting each other and the bad guy will just move on to somewhere else.

3 Likes

Your scenario about the church security team doesn’t take into account off duty LE, security team members who are carrying that day but not ‘on duty’ etc. shirt olors, wristbands, nothing will be a guarantee of no blue on blue incidents.

How will they know I’m not a bad guy? Jerzey is right–the bad guy started it.
To quote the Gunner’s Guru: “A pistol action is usually commenced by firing on the part of the aggressor. On other occasions it can be initiated by an unmistakable movement on the part of the aggressor which indicates that he is about to fire. This triggers the combat response of the properly conditioned defender, and that response should be one of completely business-like attention to detail.” To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth–Col. Jeff Cooper

I am of the opinion that responsibly armed individuals will recognize and distinguish between threats and non threats.
In a situation like that, I’m not going to have time to think 2A–I’d probably just shout ‘friendly’.

3 Likes

This topic was real in the 2009 Fort Hood shootings. Responders later reported that when they entered the building and saw MAJ Hasan, they could not immediately tell whether he was the shooter, or whether he was responding to the shooter.

I’m not confident in my ability to make the correct distinction 100% of the time, and I hope I’m never tested in real life.

5 Likes

I don’t know that anybody could or should be confident in their ability to make that call 100% of the time. Too many variables, too much chaos, too likely to be reacting and not see what started it. Shots firing, people being shot, people screaming, brain matter on the wall, man with a gun shooting towards people…

National expert on minimizing casualties in active shooter situations Ed Monk keeps detailed statistics on these events. As he said twice in this just-released video, while there have been several incidents of law enforcement officers shooting innocent by standers or other LEOs, no civilian concealed carrier has ever shot an innocent in these situations.
Overcoming Common Objections To Arming School Staff (Last Resort Firearms Training)
To the series of his lectures from one such class on ASP Extra:
See Active Shooter Interdiction with Ed Monk

Ed is very active right now giving seminars and classes on the subject. See his schedule at his FB school page Last Resort Firearms Training.

2 Likes

I’d like to see that stay as long as possible.

But, to put that statistic into context (I apologize for just asking vs digging for it myself), does he share the total number of times LEO’s have taken action, or responded to, one of these situations, vs the total number of times a private citizen has?

Yes. You should really watch the videos.

1 Like

I have a bit of a backlog of videos to watch lol

I’m sure it’s great, but I tend to try to find my stats in charts and tables and things, finance background I just want to see the numbers (and definitions of terms used)

1 Like

Great post.

Thought about that, not being mistaken for a bad guy; Even in individual case situations, not just in a mass shooting.

As others have commented in the past on these pages, what/how one dresses, looks, behaves, clean, organized, calm, and one’s “spoken words”, one’s behavior — eye contact, and facial expressions all further communicate an impression.

Getting to know people and letting them know who you are might help, when someone sees you friendly and “social” with another, they may see you as a friendly, not a lone foe.

Just off the top of my head… if the guy is a young, white male holding a semi-automatic rifle in the middle of the mall and slowly turning as he fires, he’s probably the bad guy.
And there’s a fair chance he’s alone, but I wouldn’t bet my life on that.

1 Like

What? We have been told that bad guys use “assault rifles” only… :confused:

1 Like

“full-semi-auto”

3 Likes

That situation would seem pretty clear, yes.

But what if that is not the person’s physical description, and they have a handgun?

Depending on whose definition you use for “mass shooting”, the (vast) majority are committed with handguns. Also, the deadliest school shooting in the US to date was committed using two handguns.

Exactly. If the “bad guy” doesn’t throw off the right indicators, it’s could be difficult to ascertain the “bad guy* with a gun” from the “good guy* with a gun.”

*“guy” used in the generic-gender sense… not trying to exclude bad girls.

2 Likes