I know firearms on federal property are problematic, that is not my question. If someone works as a federal employee but in a privately owned /GSA leased property does the federal property restriction apply? A building with 10 floors has 3 occupied by a federal agency and the rest occupied by the Coca Cola company as an example, can a federal employee have a firearm in a vehicle on the property?
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I live near a building that is exactly what you are saying, the ground floor is a gym, there are sound studios and other offices in there along with Post Office and Social Security Offices. Iāve wondered the same thingā¦
edit:
There is actually an ICE office on the floor right below meā¦
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My understanding is only the actual offices leased by the gubment can be restricted unless the other offices have a similar policy of their own.
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@Edward331 Welcome to the community, more than likely restrictions apply if the building is leased by a federal agency on the sections of floors that they occupy, but the other non government companies in the building may also have restrictions and policies of their own in place.
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My understanding is the law only applies to the office of the Gov. unless it is posted for the entire bidg.
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I canāt document it but there has been a lot of talk about Post Office Parking Lots being in the restricted zone.
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I worked in a building with several alphabet agencies and the secret service in it . We were told that the whole building was a no gun zoneā¦ all 24 floors
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The tricky part of this issue is there is (1) what someone tells you, (2) what an administrative policy is, and (3) what the law is. All that gets funky in the OPās situation. I donāt have an answers, but I am sure the right answer requires dealing with office owner policy, offce renter policy, state law, and federal law. And none of that counts when security guard is in your face on the subject.
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I would ask for the documentation to see if itās law or policy. If you decide to push the boundaries of their ego, film and document EVERYTHING.
PS, it might be a good idea to have a lawyer already lined up that will take on such a case.
PSS, What @Craig_AR said.
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My understanding is this is the case only if the PO owns the parking lot. If the PO is just leasing space in a building then their property line does not extend to parking lot or other areas of the building. Unless perhaps they are leasing specific parking spaces as well. But I have never seen any indication of this happening and would think those spaces would be marked for PO use only if they were.
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There seems to be some confusion to my question. This isnāt a post office. It is a federal office in a commercial building also occupied by a private company. The parking lot is open and there are no spaces assigned to the federal lease. The question is about a firearm left in the vehicle, not to take the firearm in the building.
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Depends on state law. For example, California (and now Colorado) requires that firearms in motor vehicles be secured in a locked hard sided container. If your car is impounded for whatever reason while parked in the lot, it will be inventoried and there is a risk that you could be criminally charged for improper storage of a firearm.
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Letās say, for the sake of clarity, that the firearm is unloaded and stored in a locked container in addition to being in a locked vehicle. The question is can the federal government stop a federal employee from having a firearm in the parking lot of a privately owned commercial space that the employee works in where the federal government leases a portion of the building? No signage is present until you reach the federally leased space.
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The Post Office replies were because there is some analogy to your questions. SOme yers back many of us understood that USPS regultions, linkeed to laws, made it illegla to bring a firearm onto P.O. property. That property includes the drives and parking lots at post office buildings. However, there are numerous smaller P.O.s that are storefront leased locations at shopping malls, espscially open air strip malls. In those cases, the parking lots are not P.O. property; rather they are property of the mall owners. So, the conclusion is that we cna drive onto the mall parking, lock our EDC items in the car, and walk unarmed into the P>O. without violating any laws.
Your office building situation with leased government office mixed with commercial and retial establishments is sorta-kinda like the P.O. in a mall situation.
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Understand. Thanks @Craig_AR!
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If itās the parking lot of a privately owned building, probably wonāt affect the federal employee from legally following safe protocol as to locking up the firearm correctly in the vehicle, BUT NOT PARKING IN THE FEDERALLY LEASED SPACE AREA. Unless the private building has a policy in place of their own to not allow no firearms nowhere in the premises INCLUDING THE PRIVATE PARKING LOT (best to look into that) then itās best leave the firearm safely lock up in a safe AT HOME, OTHERWISE if there is no signage and no private building policies, JUST DONāT PARK NEAR THE FEDERAL LEASE AREA of the parking lot.
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Yes, they can, especially in āat willā jurisdictions. Employees in most āat willā states work at the pleasure of their employer. AN employee can quit if they donāt like their employerās rules, however dumb those rules might be. Likewise, the employer in an āat willā jurisdiction is free to fire employees for any reason or no reason, but not a reason that relates to a protected class (e.g., you were fired because of your race, religion, sex). Where and how an employee stores their firearms is not a protected employment class. There is no individual right to keep a federal job if one chooses to violate their employerās rule.
It is the āgolden rule.ā He who has the gold makes the rules.
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I worked in a GSA owned property that was the reverse of that. It was / is a Federal building, but there was a private bank on the inside. We had an agreement with the Tennent agency and The FPS (Federal Protective Service) that the private armored car company could have access to the entry up to the bank doors for the purpose of transporting money, yet federal employees could not have firearms inside the building unless it was a provision of official business.
To answer your question, the rules of Title 18 Ā§930 only follow through to the edge of where federal property owned or leased begins/ends. There is a video of a PSO (Protective Security Officer) shooing out a deputy sheriff from an IRS office at gunpoint because the deputy refused to secure his weapons in the vehicle before entering the federally leased property. Were the PSO went wrong, in several instances, is following the deputy out to the elevator, where it is no longer federal property. He (The PSO) did not have jurisdiction outside the office space, and he cannot claim āCurettageā space because it is only the office space that is under IRS/GSA/FPS authority.
If the land / property owner does not have an issue with federal employees having firearms in the trunk in the parking lot, then it is a non-issue. Also, hypothetically let say there is a SSA Office on the 10th floor of the building and an armed security company or private investigators office on the 12th. So as long as firearms do not breech the confines of the elevator on the 10th floor, this is permissible unless there is a provision put into the GSA lease agreement for FPS approval. If there is a provision, it could mean that firearms do not breech the 10th floor and the other businesses may have to move to office space below the 10th. As for Federal Employees taking them into the building, so as long as it is a part of oneās official business, then it would be permissible. Otherwise keep it in the public parking lot, that has public access. If there is a section of the parking area that is reserved for federal employees, keep it out of there, as it may be covered and regarded as federal by the GSA contract.
Hope this helps! Be safe, everyone!
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Good question.
I notice quite a bit of similar questions around employment and parking lots.
My first reaction is what are the odds that an employer would search oneās personal car? Does donāt ask, donāt tell help here? Does oneās personally owned car constitute sacred ground per se (as private as a home)?
I would not trust anyone with knowing whatās stored, as someone else will find out - it will get around. If you choose to āstoreā, keep it āon the down lowā dear āGrey Manā.
Not sure if employers get around to such specifics in their written policies. I can appreciate employees like us not wanting to verbally ask as that could result in retaliation from and employer, regrettably. Some employers are now publishing their polices in their internal intranet website for employees to be able to read without having to āaskā.
Someone mentioned stay laws. I believe in the state Iām normally in, they spell out parking lot and vehicle storage laws, which might answer your question.
Be well.
Thank you @Burdo for the response. Unfortunately I have shared my love of shooting with folks in the office, some of which are not like-minded. I am afraid that someone might say something out of fear or malice that leads to employment challenges. I also recognize what is in my car is none of their business. I was just wondering if there were laws against it.
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