Empty Holster – Shots Fired!

Same thing for all intents and purposes. In a justifiable shooting, you are found innocent.

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You did everything correctly not knowing where the position of the threat. For future reference if you’re in a situation not violating your permission to carry in destination areas keep your FA on hand because situations can change and might have to defend you and your family, but overall you did great.

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Thanks @Willie26 , welcome aboard! :+1:

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Gary, you took the appropriate action by moving your family members out of dangers way. Also, not drawing at that time was the best course of action. Your were ready to react once the danger was identified.

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Your primary concern is to get in a safe position for you and your family, which you did. After that, like you said, the circumstances dictate your next action. If you were a Police Officer you could have had your gun drawn perhaps and no one would have questioned it. You are right. In your assessment of the circumstances no one would have known if you were the bad guy or the good guy. In this case, being a good witness is better than being a dead one.

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Gary,
You handled the situation perfectly. Also the explanation you provided your family member was spot on.

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Hi, I look at this & in my mind you did right. First take cover, get to safety . Second the best fight is the one you can avoid in the first place… Never get into a gun fight if you don’t have to be in one. You didn’t know them, what ever started the gun fight or the reason for one. And you never want to have a gun in your hand when the police arrive and see you shooting or having a gun in your hand, they don’t know who is good & who is bad, you did right. And you even answered her question right. Things would have been different if the threat was coming at you or your family, that would be a different ending. But you did every thing right & I would have done the same. I have my permit to carry and they just passed the law in OHIO you do not need a permit to carry. It will take 60 days before will be in effect. You can carry in this state as long as your 21 years old, & don’t have a record. & you are legal to have a gun. This will be good in some ways but bad maybe in others. I will still keep my permit carry. I hope that others that has never handed a gun will get training and know the laws and sign up with the USCCA or have protection from a carrier.

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I think you did the right thing. The laws are against us in a no gun zone. I feel naked when I have to leave my pistol in the car and can’t protect my family and myself.

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But, the question arises, if the restaurant+bar is a single business, does the no–guns-in-bars law apply in the bar area of that business?

Yes it cover the entire prem, however it does not prohibit you from carrying in the prem, all the law provides is a method for the owner to tell you to leave should it be discovered you are carrying a firearm.

At that point failing to leave could get you charged with armed trespassing, a serious charge that can become quite expensive to defend.

I went through that legal hassle once and it cost $15K to get the charge dismissed and I never was able to get my gun back from the police.

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You did the correct thing, you are not a LEO, more so if it is a domestic, too often in one of those both sides will turn on someone else outside of the argument getting involved .

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Please let us know which state you are referring to. States vary on both how the “bar” definition applies and also whether violating a legally posted no-firearms sign is a civil trespass or a criminal violation. On the latter, I know that in Virginia it is a civil trespass (as you described) but in Arkansas it is a criminal violation.

Thank you.

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The state is Florida the pioneer in shall issue carry licensing.

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Great post. IDK. “Check your local listings” (laws), avoid or select your alcohol serving restaurants and choose to drink very wisely, ‘Not my circus, not my clowns’ (protect you and yours first/avoid & evade danger).

Lots of innocents about, if you shoot, any shot not staying inside of the threat, flies onto the public/people. Unobstructed, a handgun bullet can travel the distance of several hundred football fields, before it falls to the ground.

Read “Should I Shoot?” (on USCCA’s store). Stay cool, and keep calm.

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Not surprising. Why would the cops want to drive into an active shooter situation? That’s the way to get hurt or killed. Wait until the shooting stops and then collect evidence and statements. With exceptions here and there, today’s street cop is not a peace keeper. He is a law enforcement officer, hired to enforce traffic laws and respond to calls for assistance but until Columbine, the street cop was instructed to wait for a supervisor at an active shooter scene. The supervisor would evaluate the situation and if deemed necessary, activate the swat team who were the only officers who actually had any active shooter training such as it was.

I once watched the swat team from a local jurisdictions try to zero their $10,000 tax payer supplied sniper rifles and scopes using $1.00 a round Federal Match .308 ammo (you know how long ago that was by the price). After firing 200 rounds and never getting on paper they gave up. I wound up with 200 once-fired Federal Match brass. I could have told them how to get in the black in less than five shots but they were such smart asses that I let them blaze away like a bunch of drunken cowboys. No one in the group of five was a real shooter.

I once had a deputy sheriff from the local sheriff’s office tell me someone had gifted him an M-1 carbine. I congratulated him and he acknowledged that it was fun to shoot but the ammo was awfully expensive (compared to the taxpayer paid for ammo he shot when he had to qualify). I suggested that he purchase Firearms News and look for bulk sale ammo. One could still buy surplus M-1 carbine in 500 round lots for about 30¢ a round or less. He replied that he would never shoot up 500 rounds. He really wasn’t into guns as he stood there with a tax payer funded 17+1 Glock on his hip. Made me shake my head in wonder.

So there, perhaps, is the reason it took the cops 15 minutes to respond. Actually that is not bad response time. I understand the national average is 11 minutes.

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Good Job, pretty much “Right On”.

Tactical Thoughts:
Dont sit in exposed areas like that with no Quick “Cover” available.

Choose your seating location carefully, explain to family why before going.
Wife and I have - Had the “Talk”. When, where, why, how.

  • I usually look for a corner near a door of possible.
    So no-one can get behind me.
    And sit with wall to my back so I can see everything, everywhere possible.

Turn Table Over if need be for at least some “Concealment”.

If seated outside - I would look for seats near the Entrance door for access to Cover(Inside).

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I tell people, “If you heard the shot, it wasn’t meant for you”

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Well done. My comment is directed toward the fact that once again, politicians removed your right to protect yourself and family by creating BS laws and regulations that only apply to law abiding citizens. Criminals don’t care about laws. I am facing the same when dealing with state reciprocity laws. Carry in one, denied in another. Government may be directly responsible for many victims as they deny the right to self defense. I am also in my 60s and am ashamed of how out federal and state governments have blatantly shredded the 2nd Amendment. What if this had been in the restaurant? Right next to you? Absurd laws that are clearly unconstitutional, but honest citizens have no voice in today’s corrupt judicial system.

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You did good

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Agreed the last thing you want to do is to be seen running around with a gun in your hand. It would be too easy to mistake you for the bad guy

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Very true, unconstitutional laws which carry no weight and yet we’re still stuck having to follow them

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