As a new member of the USCCA community I was delighted to receive my first issue of the magazine. I read Ed Combs article “Glass Houses” with great interest. It is an excellent read and made me consider the many variables about my red-dots. His assertion that things can go wrong (i.e. getting mud on the window) prompted me to thinking of how I might gear my training to such an event occurring.
One thing that puzzled me was his statement: “… you’ll likely end up
with a gun and optic that are zeroed to your training ammo rather than your carry ammo and will have to be tuned to carry ammo after each range session.” I have never heard of this - even from my instructors. I practice with both range and defense ammo and have never seen any difference in sighting performance. I shoot 5, 7, 10, 15, and 25 yard distances with consistency and accuracy. Maybe he was talking about something else. At any rate it was a fine article. I will continue to with my red-dots (for my “aging eyes”) until something better comes along.
Welcome to the family, we are glad to have you with us! If you run a red dot, it’s important to know how it will perform through different variables, wether it’s mud, water, ammo difference, etc. However the most common of the issues I’ve experienced are water and lint/dust from carrying iwb. I don’t normally roll in the mud though, so I suppose I’m unprepared for that particular scenario. I’d make sure you can use it through normal everyday variables over “what ifs” because if we focus on those, we may end up with sticks and rocks, or some over complicated pistol setup that’s near impossible to carry.
Yeah I don’t think anybody changes their pistol zero back and forth between training and practice ammo. Well, nobody I know.
If they are that far off, I think most people would change either training or carry ammo so that they are substantially similar POA/POI.
And that’s not a red dot thing really, that would apply to any and every sighting system.
People might notice it more with red dots though since red dots are easier to shoot with more accuracy and a more precise aiming point vs most big front sights that obscure half the target
Right on!
If you really go to the most simple thing available, a full tang fixed blade knife is probably the most complicated tool/defense weapon you’d be able to justify.
If one were to insist on a firearm, and the most simple possible with the least to go wrong, a double action only revolver maybe at the absolute most
I’m happy having redundant sighting systems though of both an RDS and irons
If I can’t cowitness, I won’t use a RDS. I’ve had one fail. Fortunately, it was on the range, but that doesn’t mean it’s limited to the range. Only one of my carry pistols has an RDS. The others are irons only. Sometimes simple is better, even if slightly less accurate.
What brand did you have fail and how did it fail?
FWIW I’ve had more irons fail than I have red dots, on pistols.
Two iron failures, zero RDS, so far.
I’ve found in most defensive distance shootong your target ammo and defensive ammo will not be much of a variable. 5, 10 or 15 yards I’ve used both and maybe 1/2 inch rise or drop from point of center.
One way to help if you are worried about the difference is to use the same grain wieght round with both fmj and hollow point.
I adjust my aiming elevation for extra distances, this takes much more practice.
Far distances are fun at a range, though I really don’t believe I’ll be firing 50 yds. at a bad guy, I’ll be evading/leaving the area or heading for good cover and be a good witness.
Welcome and train often.
As for bullet grain weight, I find that a lighter range/FMJ is best to equal the POI of defense ammo. The rise/elevation is mostly about velocity, and with defensive rounds loaded hotter, an equal bullet weight FMJ/practice vs JHP/defense, the JHP will be running faster. By going with a lighter weight FMJ you may get a much closer velocity match. So a typical 115gr FMJ range and 124gr JHP defense for example may be a very good match in most situations
For those not deeply familiar with RDS, please understand the implications of co-witness. It does mean that your gun has both RDS and iron sights you can see through the RDS window. (Most OEM iron sights are too low to see when you add an RDS. The solution is to use taller iron sights, often called suppressor sights, again to be visible above the suppressor can.
When zeroing the sights, it is common to carefully aim so the iron sights are correctly aligned (proper sight picture) with the red dot resting on or just above the front sight.
However, during actual use of the RDS, your focus should be on the target, not the front sight. Further, if the dot is anywhere in the window and resting on your point of aim (target) then you are properly aimed. It is a major waste of time to co-witness the iron and red dot during actual firing.
And yes, I do have co-witnessed iron on both of my RDS equipped pistols.
Vortex Viper. Emailed me back within 30 minutes, and about 5 days turnaround. Shut down and wouldn’t come back on. I don’t remember what was wrong, but they sent me a new one.
Not sure if you’re the same one that had a Viper issue before, but…Trijicon RMR and Holosun any are the go-to pistol red dot sights for reliability and durability, hands down. Please do not judge RDS reliability based on a viper, that would be sort of like being unwilling to move from revolvers to semi autos because a jimenez malfunctioned
If you are shooting professionally and by that I mean sponsored by some firearms company or ammunition company and are counting how many Xs you get as opposed to putting the hurt on Mr. Bad Guy, then, yes, you need to adjust for every different lot of ammunition. In real life, where you are mainly interested in getting all your shots center mass, you won’t notice much difference. The bad guy won’t notice if your shot with the high velocity light weight hollow point is an inch lower than where your lead, round-nosed practice shots usually hit. Obviously if you regularly use some steel-cased, steel-jacketed milsurp head stamp 47 and you can’t read the writing because it is in some kind of script other than Roman letters, then you need to practice with your regular defense ammo a time or two to see if comes close to same point of aim as the ComBloc ammo.
I am the one lol I bought it because I have other vortex products, and like them. It made it several years before it crapped, so I’m not even mad. I do have a holosun and am trying to talk myself into a DPP 
Vortex generally makes some of the best, most competitive stuff in any price range in which they exist. But, not the pistol RDS. Pass on the DPP, JMO…RMR or Holosun
I had one fail 2 weeks ago, Vortex was quick, very communicative throughout the whole warranty process. Got a brand new one back from them in a week since mine was DOA
Hello and welcome @TheTwoJakes
Some days I carry my DR920 w/RDS co-witnessed, some days my G5 G19 w/o RDS. Mainly weather related, winter verses summer. I have been training to work on my point of aim to get my rounds on target quicker without using a RDS or irons, like Nathan has experienced, they both can fail.
I ran across this video while watching on Wilson Combat, made me think a bit more about each.
