If you read the introduction for the blog post attached, you’ll see what we all probably know already:
No, any gun control will not work - because bad guys do not follow the law.
Same reason gun free zones do not work. If someone is willing to commit multiple murder, what is one more (minor) charge?
Criminals will not follow the gun control laws. It’s because of criminals that we have to carry guns for protection in the first place.
Pretty simple answer, criminals are not inclined to adhere to the law or they wouldn’t be criminals to start with.
Above and beyond that only 13 states at last check were fully compliant with reporting requirements and as we have seen in some tragic shootings not even the various federal agencies responsible are at all consistent in getting the proper info to the FBI so their database can be updated.
Perhaps most importantly there is almost never enforcement of the law with respect for those ineligible who attempt to purchase through an FFL dealer and are rejected. The attempt it self is a felony carrying if I remember right 2-5 years in federal prison.
Lastly, with over 300 million guns in the country and our open borders anyone that wants a gun who has ill intent can easily obtain one illegally.
You can walk into any bar in the country and be no more than 3 contacts away from someone peddling guns illegally. Just find the club drug dealer and if he/she isn’t dealing hot guns, they’ll know who is.
Yes, gun control works. I have complete control over my gun and it has never run off and hurt anyone. I left it sitting on a hotel nightstand when I was traveling a few weeks ago when I went to bed and it didn’t move all night. And it wasn’t the nicest place to begin with. I have mine trained to do what I want it to do when I want it to do it!
This is what you were asking, right?
I haven’t heard that argument in a while - and it’s a really good one!
Glad to have you here, @Douglas13!
No, Like others have said criminals will not abide by the law. No gun zones are a joke It lets the bad guy know that no one will be there to stop them for at least 15-20 min till the police show up. Then It will be on the news and they will demonize the weapon not the idiot with it.
I’m with you on that one, @David77. Gun-free zones don’t stop criminals.
@Dawn, I read the whole PDF and, to be honest, did not find it compelling. It is basically a long opinion piece with no stats, definitions, or evidence. Does it work? Well, no, not if “works” means we stop absolutely everyone who wants to commit violence on themselves or others. By that token, alarm systems at your house don’t “work,” and neither do seat belts. Of course hardened criminals or terrorists will always be able to get guns, just as there will always be crooks skilled enough to overcome your alarm, or accidents where seat belts don’t help. What we’re trying to figure out is whether we can reduce the violence, not eliminate it, while still retaining our constitutional rights.
To determine if “gun control works,” I think you need to first define the terms – what does “gun control” mean, and how do you know if it “works?” In another thread that you initiated (It’s not a Red or Blue thing), one of the contributors posted a terrific chart of a whole menu of proposals for trying to keep violent or suicidal people from guns, and political acceptance of each. I would want to look at each measure individually, then would want to see what the stats are for those states or countries that either implemented or withdrew any of these specific steps to find the actual impacts. To my mind, that would be a better way to approach whether something “works” or not.
For example, this article conflates background checks with gun registration and suggests that one leads to the other. Where I live, we have universal background checks but no gun registration. When I recently sold a gun to a guy I met on the range, we had to meet at a gun shop to register the sale and he had to go through a background check on the spot. To be honest, I was glad we had to do that, for two reasons. 1. There is a now a formal record of the sale, so that if God-forbid the gun is ever used in a crime, I can show that it was sold, and, 2. I was comfortable that I was not selling to someone prohibited from owning. For me, that combination was well worth the $25 and 15 minutes of my time.
“Does it work?” I think the questions, and answers, are a lot more nuanced than couched in this article, and I’d love to see more evidence-based work in our discussions.
If there is a record kept of the transactions it becomes a defacto gun registration scheme.
Without universal registration, no UBC system can be effective because we have over 300,000,000 lawfully owned and possessed firearms already in the hands of the public so unless they are registered there’s no way to track their ownership in reality since they can still be bought, sold, and traded under the radar.
We’ve also entered an age where just about anyone can produce unserialized firearms at home with a 3-D Printer and a few simple tools. There was a recent case where a guy was busted in an ATF/FBI sting for trying to sell unserialized AR’s to ISIS members.
Gun control as currently being proposed by the anti gun leftwing Democatic Candidates includes confiscation, magazine limits. UBC’s and Universal registration which is a gross violation of our 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendment rights and none of what they are proposing can be shown that if enacted would have any effect on crime rates.
80-90% of all violent crime relates directly to the drug trade and gangs and such measures would only empower them to be even bolder and more dangerous because the only people affected by them would be the law abiding.
In nearly every mass shooting case from the last 20 years we find common the common elements of numerous red flag warning signs and multiple prior contacts with LEO’s and in every case the system failed to identify those individuals, render them ineligible and get them the help they needed.
PD’s and SD’s did the bare minimum, prosecutors chose to do nothing or very little at all dealing only with the current offenses, and schools and HP’s failed to flag these individuals and get the evaluated.
I can walk into any bar or club in the country and within 3 hours find out who is dealing illegal guns and buy one so none of these laws are going to be a deterrent to anyone serious about committing a crime.
We have over 80,000 cases annually where those who are ineligible attempt to purchase a weapon through an FFL dealer. That is a federal crime yet some years the prosecutions of those individuals never got out of single digits.
Only 16 states are fully compliant with reporting ineligible people and as we’ve seen even our own federal agencies fail to get the information reported in a timely fashion if at all in many cases.
We could have a serious impact on crime by addressing the above and upping the penalties for anyone found in possession of a stolen firearm or trafficking in same and there are very practical ways to get it done, but that isn’t the goal as is demonstrated by the fact that none of these candidates is even proposing we take those steps but instead wants to trample the rights of the law abiding.
“Gun Control” or “Gun Safety Legislation” as being proposed is nothing but a backdoor attempt to strip the law abiding of their rights and to open the door to draconian gun confiscation and restriction in the near future.
The obvious and most damning flaw in all of the “Common sense Gun laws” being proposed is that NOT ONE of the politicians or lobby groups advancing the proposals says anything at all about enforcing the laws already on the books, or to eliminate laws proven to be ineffective or contradictory. Neither do they propose anything which directly addresses criminals or criminal activities. Their entire agenda is to pile on more and more laws to make the process of legally acquiring firearms and ammunition so arduous and so expensive that many people will give up before they even try. That’s a first step towards eliminating private ownership of all guns, which is the ultimate goal.
Needless to say, none of these laws will have any effect on criminals who want a gun. They will still get their guns from the same people they always have, with the exception that they may have to pay a bit more due to the market forces created by all these laws.
Well they are proposing sentencing and judicial reforms that will flood our streets with felons and keep millions more from ever being incarcerated in the future so they are doing “something”.
The agenda is obvious to anyone who looks at the issue rationally and dispassionately, there’s no intent behind any of their proposals to reduce crime, only to exert ever more power over the law abiding and to disarm as many of us as possible.
@WildRose – I’m on the road and don’t have time to engage with your thoughtful comments with the care that is deserved, but I will soon.
In the meantime, could you please spell out PD’s, SD’s, and HP’s? Not acronyms I recognize.
Police Dept’s, Sheriff’s Dept’s. HP’s “health professionals” should have used MHP’s, “Mental Health Professionals” to be more accurate.
One just needs to look at Chicago or Washington DC, where two of the most controlled gun governments are and yet the most crime. That’s really all I need to say about this subject.