Disappointed in the USCCA

Well even though his comment may be negative he still has the 1st amendment to protect him as does anyone else in the u.s… it is and always will be my opinion that if you do not feel safe to carry then don’t but don’t try to remove my rights because you don’t feel safe with yours. Beyond that I wish that people would not continue to go to places that they are going to be offended just to see how badly they can become offended just to start trouble.

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Sidecarr I think all people should be required to have a Concealed Carry Course, it is all about what the law says about what you can and cannot do legally, Castle Law, etc. Having spent 20 years in the Navy, a lot of sailors never touched any kind of firearm before bootcamp or since. Lots of reason for both sides, should it be manditory to attend a class? I attended even though i had been through various safety classes, someone who thinks they are above learning something should maybe take a step back and rethink it.

God Bless

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I was qualified expert with both rifle and pistol in the service and while that was valuable training it in no way prepared me for carrying as a civilian.

We’re self defenders in the civilian world and subject to in many cases numerous laws that differ from state to state, even location to location.

We also have both potential civil and criminal liabilities under those laws and no one, no matter what level of police or military training they’ve had is prepared to carry as a civilian without quite a bit of training.

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A agree. Past military service , depending on your position/rank should go towards your ability to get a CCW permit without question, but not all those who serve got the training that makes it a slam dunk. And I say this with respect towards anybody who served in any branch.

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WildRose, I replied with “done” but the algorithm rejected for too few characters. Let’s see if this one works.

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The religious conversation has been pulled out of this conversation (sorry if I missed any of that topic in the split).

You can find the religious portion in its own topic:

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We want people to Honor the 2nd amendment, so we have allow people to use their 1st amendment too.

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Although I agree the 2A aspect-please remember that paying tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees and potential incarceration because you exercised that right is the reality we live in.
I have taught hunter safety in Wisconsin for over a decade, and am also a USCCA and NRA instructor (my views are my own and don’t represent any of these organizations). Wisconsin allows hunter safety education to qualify for CCW. While the 4 rules of safety are the necessary first step with firearms, this is only one of the aspects needed to carry responsibly. Learning the legal aspects of using deadly force from a criminal and civil perspective for each and every municipality you plan to carry in is the part of the secret sauce that seems to get lost in the discussion. While the 2A gives us the right, we need to focus just as strongly on the responsibility for safe and responsible carry. I would deem laws around training for CCW sensible. When teaching the class, there is always–always–someone who opines on how they will ‘just show people the gun’ or ‘fire a warning shot’ or ‘drag the body back inside’. We had an attorney present at a class and he laid out all the laws broken under each of those. As an example, ‘showing the gun’ is brandishing in some states, assault in others–a felony. ‘Warning shots’ violated between 5-10 different municipal, state and federal laws depending on where you were. And dragging the body around would be a prosecutor’s winning ticket to potentially disqualify a self defense argument. The class learned the respect they clearly lacked as to the gravity of what M. Ayoob describes as ‘the gravest extreme’–and it’s called that for a reason that few give the necessary gravity to. I would urge everyone to train like crazy, and spend the time necessary to think through and train on potential scenarios. Sweating in training beats bleeding in combat.

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In obtaining a Florida ccw dd214s are accepted you get a printout of the process step by step on how to fill out the paperwork and the statutes of Florida. My military training and experience provided more to the ccw world than all concealed carry classes I have ever taken. I have taken ccw in KY, TN (8 hours with live fires), being a resident of GA and AL they gave me one, Virginia is a safety knowledge test, Illinois require 16 hours 8 with Leo, military, or ky training with qualification out to 10 yards 30 rounds total. (with a review of laws and safety every five years and a Requalify). Being retired military and a LEO I think Florida has every right to do as they please with their ccw laws as you can see no state is the same. With all my training I’ve had as a civilian and LEO; I still think the military provided the best, because it was day in and day out. Then again I was no POG either.

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Thank you for your service, @Nicholas19

You’re right, if you’re carrying every day in the military it’s definitely different than a military mechanic (for example) who doesn’t carry every day.

What did you do in the military?

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First off thank you for your service. That being said your stance is kind of an oxymoron, you take an oath to defend the constitution of the United States, and yet you come across as anti gun. So what was the reason for joining the military? The G.I. Bill,? I don’t think so. Must be the great VA Heathcare? Again I don’t think so. The reason was because you love your country and all which it stands for. While there is no perfect answer to this topic, our forefathers meaning yours and mine fought for us, and wrote the bill of rights as well as a constitution to protect those rights. You know the ones you sworn to defend.

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I was in the infantry thought I still believe all members should be afforded the right to self defense without added costs. Though I do recommend training classes and training for just 10 minutes a day, no more and no less because you will get tired and creat bad habits. KISS method Keep It Simple Stupid.

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I joined because it’s what I wanted and what was expected of me everything else came as a bonus. I defend all constitutions but the U.S. constitution first and foremost. Ever state reserves their right to sovereignty with limitations being federal laws. As we see with the legalization of marijuana on state levels though federally it’s still illegal. States have the power to make their own laws (with some oversight) so if Florida thinks a DD-214 is sufficient then so be it.

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My personal feelings is it’s granted by the second amendment so I need no one to tell me I can carry or where I can carry. We all know the second amendment and there are no limitations to that one that I am aware of. So I feel anyone violating a state law, maybe carrying on school property to protect themselves and the kids, gets caught and arrested. At this point they, in my book can Appel it to a federal court because they were denied their civil liberties. Like if I shoot someone on duty I can be cleared and it considered a good shoot, but can still be sued because I denied that person life; as covered in the bill of right in the fifth amendment and also in the fourteenth amendment.

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Even though that came across a little mean. but my mothers name is Shannon and I heard her talking as you read that. I can literally hear her say “Oxymoron” :rofl::rofl:

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Spot on. I don’t see CCW as an infringement of 2A but more of an voluntary enhancement - once you decide to keep a firearm readily available (EDC) for self-defense you have to commit to the lifelong pursuit of training and maintaining the level of responsibility required by all applicable laws. Constitutional carry? All for it, but one better be able to clearly articulate why they felt so threatened to the point of having to use their firearm. CCW and the basic training typically required to demonstrate firearm proficiency at least starts a person down that path. That said, I completely disagree with some of the exorbitant state fees that are required for the license.

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In some states it is a barricade to people being able to carry (think may-issue states).

In Wisconsin, we have a CCW class requirement - 4 hours and no range time or firearm handling… Not sure how that makes anyone seriously prepared to carry. :woman_shrugging:

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So you think it’s ok to have to get a government licence to exercise your second amendment right. Let’s say you didnt have the right to exercise your first amendment right to free speech unless you had a government issued licence , just so you knew what the law was and what the government allowed you to say . Would that be ok with you

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Here in Texas it’s an all day course (8 hours) followed by a simple marksmanship test (or it was when I first got my CHL back in 2000). Not much of an improvement over Wisconsin but no state mandated training/proficiency test will ever be enough in my opinion. Therefore, I train every day - whether it’s playing ‘what if’ with my surroundings, watching videos, reading, studying real life defensive situations, dry fire, air soft, or competing in local matches.

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As far as I can tell the second amendment is the only one the founders felt compelled to put in those four little words . SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED .

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