Different Perscpective on New Legislation

Legal & Second Amendment
1

I just received an email from an FFL that I have done business in the past with. He is also a lawyer here in Florida. I thought I would post the content of the email for others in this forum to read and comment on. I did contact him and received permission to reprint his email. In my humble opinion he does make some good points. Please note that he is referencing Florida and the laws that apply here.

Happy Independence Day!

EMAIL CONTEXT:

"As we take time to celebrate the enormous freedoms we enjoy in this country, it seems like a good time to talk a bit about the Constitution and the new federal legislation that I presume would be of some interest to those on this email list.

Guns have this weird effect on us. We constantly think about government intrusion when we think about guns. I am as strong a believer in the Second Amendment as you will ever meet…I don’t think I need to justify or explain my gun ownership to anyone. It is the Second Amendment (and not the Tenth or the Fourteenth for a reason). But any mention of gun regulation sends the gun lobby into the ceiling. For all of my adult life, I have heard the NRA and others say “they” are coming to take your guns. I’m certainly not discounting that the lobbying efforts from them and others have not done some good work, but forty years later, it still hasn’t happened. Yes, there was an assault weapons ban for a period of time, but it ended about 20 years ago and was such a bad idea that it’s now a third rail in any gun control discussion. How can the same people on the one hand say President Biden and the Dems barely have sense to get in out of the rain and on the other that they are going to mastermind this great conspiracy to take away our guns? Hard to reconcile, but is food for thought.

So, let’s talk about something that actually did happen, the new federal legislation. First though, as a Florida resident, ask yourself if you have had any real concerns or roadblocks to buying a gun in the last several years here in the Gunshine State. The answer is likely no. And if you answered no, you can hang tight….nothing for you is going to change under the federal law.

Uvalde, Texas; 19 children and 2 teachers dead at the hands of a mentally unstable person. Yes, he used a gun, in fact the dreaded “assault weapon.” Such a tragedy of course begs for a call to action. If you see something like that and you don’t think changes need to be made to who can get their hands on a weapon legally, then you also have to then believe that the losses there were an acceptable consequence of the laws we have. Not sure anyone can rationally take that stand. But in the past, action has always been focused on the gun, not the mentally unstable part. That has now changed.

For the first time I can remember, Congress actually decided to look at changes on more than just the gun. No bans, no confiscations, no limits on what you can buy or own, but rather some fairly straightforward legislation to help keep guns out of the wrong people’s hands.

NO NEW RED FLAG laws. Instead they set up grants for states to establish them. Do they work? Hell yes. How do we know? Florida has had a Red Flag Law since 2018….passed by a Republican state legislature and signed by Republican Governor (now U.S. Senator) Rick Scott. It allows law enforcement to petition the courts when they believe someone is a danger to themselves or others. If the court grants the petition, law enforcement can take away firearms and ammo for up to a year. At the end of that time, unless the court extends the period, the person can get their stuff back. Some of Florida’s hardest core sheriffs (Wayne Ivey, Grady Judd, etc.) have all agreed the laws work and they have saved lives.

NO PROHIBITION ON BUYING A GUN UNDER 21. Nope, just an enhanced background check for those 18-21 before they can get a gun. Where is there an outright ban on buying a gun under the age of 21? That’s right, Florida. And that 2018 change in the law has had virtually zero impact on gun ownership in the state. If a parent wants to get a gun for a child under 21 (but over 18) they can… but that little wrinkle adds a bit of a safety check and any rational safety check to me is a good one.

More money for YOUTH GUN SAFETY TRAINING and MENTAL HEALTH programs. I have long said that unless you deal with the mental health side of the situation, all the gun laws in the world won’t do any good. Look at Chicago, you add the toughest gun laws in the country, and then very little to zero spent on gun safety and youth mental health, and the toughest gun laws in the country produce the most gun violence on a daily basis in the country. The new law adds real dollars ($ 5 to 8 billion with a B) that will hopefully help.

When you break it down, the new legislation is a win. It also tightened up who can legally sell firearms as a dealer, closed a domestic violence loophole that let some folks get guns even under a DV order and enhanced penalties for gun trafficking. Already, the Republicans who voted for it are being called traitors, betrayers of the Second Amendment, scum. It’s a shame. Think about it…they voted against what they likely knew their base would want, they knew they would be scorned, even threatened, and the NRA would put them on the “list”, jeopardizing their political futures. Yet, they still voted their conscience instead of walking the party line. Personally, I think we need to get back to a place where compromise and moderation are not dirty words. I applaud them for standing their ground on ridiculous bans, magazine limits and the like and instead getting some good work done. Think carefully about who calls them traitors…chances are they’re trying to sell you on a concept that only works if we keep everyone stirred up. Where are they on proposing things they think could work and help and getting behind those issues rather than just constantly crying out in opposition? Be smarter than that."

Frank

Strong Persuader Arms

1011 N. Wymore Road

Winter Park, Florida 32789

407.539.1432

Fax: 407.539.2257

15 Likes
2

Pretty cool.

That’s why whenever I hear that laws don’t work, it’s an immediate turn off for me, and I can’t hear the rest even if I tried. It’s not that simple. Just because I might not personally like who wrote the law, some “laws” - I actually like, some not.

Great post. :grinning:

5 Likes
3

It is fairly simple for me. I don’t believe in any laws that stops someone from saving lives. I believe in laws that help people save lives.

3 Likes
4

That is an interesting perspective; food for thought.

Here’s a bit of wishful thinking I have indulged in: What if “We, the People”, through our duly elected representatives, could eliminate every single gun law on the books (federal, state, and local) and start over from scratch? We would then have the opportunity to craft a set of federal laws, binding on all the states and territories and political subdivisions thereof, with the understanding that these would be the only laws governing the exercise of our second amendment rights. The final bill would, of course, have to pass both houses of Congress, then survive a determination of its constitutionality by the Supreme Court, after which it must be approved by the voting public in a national referendum. Only after leaping all these hurdles can it go to the President for his signature.

Furthermore, whatever the final product comprises, every guideline, rule, regulation, process, procedure, and penalty must pass the following scrutiny:
1- Is it practical in a real-world sense?
2- Is there any hard data to support efficacy? If not, does it at least stand up to rigorous logic and reason?
3- Is it free of conflict with any other constitutionally protected right?
4- Is it the smallest action which can be taken to accomplish the stated goal?
5- Is it written in such a way as to be readily understandable to the People?

I warned you–this is wishful thinking! I can easily see it taking decades to complete something like this, if it can be done at all, and for the polarized extremes on both sides generating enough outrage to defeat any bill, no matter how good and reasonable and just.

As the Sheik said to Judah Ben-Hur, “I know it isn’t possible, of course, but isn’t it a delight to think upon?”

4 Likes
5

The way to prevent gun deaths is to build up a resistance to wanting to kill. Given the amount of guns in this USA the way to do that is to encourage saving lives.

3 Likes
6

Call me jaded, but here’s my perspective:

  1. The government does NOTHING well (except waste money).
  2. Most red flag laws I’ve seen are garbage.
  3. There is NOTHING in the new law that addresses:
    1.Drugs
    2 Gang violence
    3 Bail reform (sic)
    4 Corrects failed Democratic polices
    5 A lack of prosecution of criminal activity

Until the above are addressed, anything else is a red herring. Serious consideration needs to be given to the person and circumstances of why the trigger was pulled, not the gun itself.

11 Likes
7

I disagree. The government does two things very well: 1- Nothing and, 2-Overreact. :wink:

9 Likes
8

I have one that has lasted since it was ratified. It also directly states that our right “shall not be infringed.” The only problem with it is that the last part of it has been ignored. That is the same problem we also find with laws that are passed.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

5 Likes
9

My 2 cents worth… Saying “not much changed in 40 years” with respect to gun ownership is a form of linear thinking. A lot changed in general mentality in the past 2 years, and then since 2016, if you ask me. This nation made a noticable turn from the American Way to the Soviet way, and we need our Constitutional checks and balances more and stronger than ever. What used to be 3rd rail in politics, is now normalized in areas other than 2A, so I am worried. What people call sensible compromise, may be just that, or it may be another incremental loss to 2A rights of law-abiding citizens.

10 Likes
10

My 2cents worth is freaking enforce the current laws without enacting any more. Let’s see how that works before we do anything else.

9 Likes
11

That sounds like a friend and lawyer that uses his head to think.

1 Like
12

A few comments on the lawyer’s letter, with my comments in italics;

“I am as strong a believer in the Second Amendment as you will ever meet”

Do you mean, you believe it exists, or you believe “The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”? Because if you believe it is the latter, you are a hypocrite in subsequent statements that you make in this letter.

"How can the same people on the one hand say President Biden and the Dems barely have sense to get in out of the rain and on the other that they are going to mastermind this great conspiracy to take away our guns? "

They may not have rational thinking, but they ARE in power. (And there is AMPLE proof of election fraud, EVEN if it is ignored by the courts) So, there’s that. This situation is different than any other time in my life.

“Uvalde, Texas;…If you see something like that and you don’t think changes need to be made to who can get their hands on a weapon legally, then you also have to then believe that the losses there were an acceptable consequence of the laws we have.”

That’s funny, I don’t think those losses were acceptable AT ALL, and yet, I don’t think you should ignore “Shall NOT be infringed” in the laws we call the Constitution. In fact, there are SO MANY (Illegal) gun laws that don’t follow the Constitution, that I wonder what would happen if people actually followed the laws as they were written by that intelligent bunch of law makers we call our forefathers. I’ll bet some of those adults in that gun free zone might have made quite a difference, but we’ll never know, since the “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED” part of the law has been abused like a rented mule.

"NO NEW RED FLAG laws. Instead they set up grants for states to establish them. Do they work? Hell yes. "

I’m just winging it here, but HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY KNOW if a red flag law was responsible for keeping someone from shooting people? THAT JUST MAKES no logical sense ON ANY LEVEL, unless you are able to predict the Flipping future. (I will need to see some proof that you can predict the future before you break the law and take away my Constitutional right.)

“At the end of that time, unless the court extends the period, the person can get their stuff back.”

Would this be the same court that refuses to even review evidence that the election was stolen? OK, SURE, that sounds harmless to me then.

“I have long said that unless you deal with the mental health side of the situation, all the gun laws in the world won’t do any good.”

Well GOOD, I knew we might be able to agree on something… So YOU mean that all the gun laws like, for example, the existing RED FLAG LAW that didn’t work in the Highland Park massacre, (even though a family member reported to police in September, 2021 that Crimo said he wanted to “kill everyone”) wouldn’t work? (During the September incident, police confiscated multiple weapons from him including a dagger, knives, and a sword.)

“…the toughest gun laws in the country produce the most gun violence on a daily basis in the country. The new law adds real dollars ($ 5 to 8 billion with a B) that will hopefully help.”

YEAH, let’s throw a sht ton more money into it. That should work. The liberals are licking their chops at the prospect of having more money that can “mysteriously disappear”.*

“Think about it…they voted against what they likely knew their base would want, they knew they would be scorned, even threatened, and the NRA would put them on the “list”, jeopardizing their political futures.”

YEAH, why would our elected representatives want to vote for what their base would want?

“Think carefully about who calls them traitors…chances are they’re trying to sell you on a concept that only works if we keep everyone stirred up.”

YES MY LITTLE LAMBS, EVERYTHING IS FINE! Pay no attention to what you have seen happening to this country in only the last 18 months.

5 Likes
13

Some good points - and Florida is certainly flush w/2A three-and-a-half years later.

1 Like