Denied by Employer to Serve as Church Security Team Member

They put the gun in your hand. they assume the liability. At least for active duty. The manual for LASD says Deputies “never shed their peace officer authority.” The choice to carry Dept ID and a firearm off duty is discretionary. When you retire the liability is all yours. Had to sign a document to that effect.

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Sir,
First, thank you for serving your community. Second, welcome to the USCCA.

Third, I look at you situation and can offer you no legal advice, but must ask; if you were shopping in a store, mini-mart or eating out at a restaurant and an armed robber comes in an assaults someone, are you supposed to hide or run? To take action and stop the robbery/assault would seem to violate the statement they sent you. If you cannot “An employee may not engage in any outside employment/activity that conflicts with his/her official duties, or any outside employment/activity that involves criminal matters or the potential for criminal matters rather it be Federal, state or local.” If you were to wound someone, they could eventually be assigned to you care in prison. If you involve yourself in their detainment and, thereby, eventual arrest, that would be a “direct involvement” in a criminal proceeding because of your actions. Even as a witness you have the “potential” of being called as a witness and would be required by law to give a statement. If you defended yourself, that could be “direct involvement”.

I know you don’t want to cause a ruckus where you work, but it could be said just walking down the street and seeing a crime would put you in violation of the statement they sent. That seems to be an overreach on their part.

I know that wasn’t helpful for your situation and question. But it does seem like an overreach. Especially if acting as an unpaid volunteer.

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Looking at this a slightly different way, are they protecting themselves from a lawsuit if you were ever involved in an incident and had to shoot? They provide your training and (in this very litigious society) could be sued because of your involvement in the situation.

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FYI: One of our Security/Safety team members is a Corrections Officer. I never really asked him or know if it’s a conflict for him. He’s actually the inmate reverend. He conceal carries in church with our team.

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No nothing to do with work and it’s voluntary.

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Yes I see their side. Basically once you’re retired you do what you want. As long as you are currently employed they don’t want the liability.

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Thank you sir. Seems to me their issue is I would be directly involving myself in a potential criminal situation instead of reacting in a random incident in which i happened to be present.

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Valid point.

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If I remember right, religious services staff are exempt from annual firearms training. That’s great he’s serving with the team.

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I might see the conflict if you were doing it for hire or compensation. However as a private citizen just being armed I wouldnt think creates any conflict. However I am not a lawyer.
I worked for a college for 20 years and carried every day. I will say right up front it is legal to carry concealed at a university in my State, it was just a matter of policy. They could fire me if caught but I would not have broken any laws. They could not protect me at work or on my way home ( a good distance ). Concealed is concealed.

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I agree completely, and the request would have to be denied in order to disconnect from any liability they could incur.

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Welcome to the family brother @Thomas160 and you are in the right place at the right time.

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Welcome to the community, @Thomas160!

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Well, you are stuck now because you asked. I do have a couple questions. Were you planning to carry your personal firearm in an off duty capacity as permitted by 18 USC 926B, or did you also have a state concealed carry permit or constitutional carry in your state? If you used your LE status with BOP to carry under the LEOSA, your employer might have something to say about it. Although not using a government issued weapon, your employer has something to say about your using your official status. But, if you also used an independent authority under state law acting in your personal capacity, I think BOP would be hard pressed to reach you. Unfortunately, you brought it to the attention of management and are stuck.

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Welcome to the family @Thomas160 glad you’re here!

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Is the problem with BOP the fact that you’re conceal carrying off duty? Or that you’re part of the security team at church?? Why couldn’t you just conceal carry to church without being on the security team??

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I have an enhanced concealed carry permit and personal firearm. I asked after talking to coworkers who advised me I should ask before something happens and I loose my job. I’ve got twenty years in and I don’t like leaving things to chance.

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The issue is that I’m part of the team. Under state law you have to be part of the team to carry in church.

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My local PD has this rule, but it sort of makes sense in their case. They don’t want their off-duty cops getting in a situation and having to go “on-duty” to deal with it.

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Welcome to the community, @Greg32!

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