That is 100% true but not trusting the people who I am in like mind with could prove to be just as or more foolish.

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A tax deduction? That’s rich! What a joke. First of all, what happened inbthis country? We used to keep our hunting rifles in a gun rack in our trucks waiting to get out of class to go hunting. They weren’t locked up. They weren’t stolen. And they sure as h.e. double hockey sticks weren’t used unsafely. We’ve lost sight of what is important and keep infringing on our rights.


Knowing the govt and what happens when you give them a millimeter, if expect mandatory record keeping by retailers under the guise of somethingile reinging in fraud or making sure people don’t miss out.

Maybe instead we could simply abolish the 10-11% firearms exise tax?


Brother thank you for your service and I BLEAVE as an American :us: that the second amendment is now and all ways the only thing that anyone needs to be able to have and possess anything for protection the right to bare arms was given to all Americans that won this NASHION ONE NASHION UNDER GOD AND ENFORCE THE DEATH PENALTY BY GOD :bangbang::us:

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I BLEAVE the government should be disarmed Bobby Jean and the people defend them or better yet they defend themselves


When I was a kid in elementary school, my Mother’s side of the family had a 500 acre ranch in the mountains near Boulder. I would ride my horse to school with a .22 rifle in a scabbard. Take my saddle off then brush my horse, put a feedbag on and a blanket on if it cold, walk to the principals office and drop my rifle off. Usually had a skinning knife on my hip. Went to class, at recess go out and check on my horse, same at lunch, and again at P.E. when school was over get my rifle and hunt for small game on the way home. I have to admit I was quite popular with the girls (They loved the horse) Hmmm :thinking::joy::innocent: I wonder if that would have been an assault horse ( it was black and had a bunch of accessories)(yes I do amuse myself). The High school was across the road and it’s parking lot was filled with trucks and everyone of them had at least one rifle or shotgun, sometimes both.

I really enjoyed being so far away from the cities. Back then boys took woodshop and the girls took Home Ec. There was some exceptions where a boy or 2 wanted to do Home EC. Or a girl wanted to do shop. Almost every boy carried a blade.

Do they even still teach that? My first real project, I made my shop teacher a 12" Bowie knife with an Elk horn grip.

Can you imagine that in today’s environment? SWAT teams galore and everyone having a case of the “vapors”. I can remember getting a skinned knee and being told to “rub some dirt on it”.

I literally had a rule not to come home till the sun was down. If we were hungry we would descend on whoever’s house was closest, like a plague of horses.

Life was so much easier.


With everything that has been happening for the past year, all of the things that have been proven. Yet not one single person has had to face justice. You really believe that we the people are in charge of our government?

Tim, no disrespect. But you are the picture book definition, of a conflict of interest. Of course the USCCA, support this. The company makes money off of training.

I completely support training. We can do everything already that this bill sponsors. So the only true benefit is the $250 tax credit, oh and putting your name on the Registry, that the Government, super secret :chipmunk: promises they won’t look at.

Sounds like the ATF database that has over 1,000,000,000 records in it that the Government broke the literal Federal law to create. You know the FOPA act of 1987.

Pardon me for not wanting to put more data into Federal custody.

Imagine if you will. These records about training are kept.

  1. You have a self defense shooting.

  2. Prosecutor filed a FOIA to see what sort of training you have. They can then decide you have to much training, so they can say. It wasn’t a good shooting because you have so much training, and couldn’t possibly have been afraid for your life. Or take the exact opposite tack, and say. You weren’t qualified to have had to make decisions about lethal force. Even though the Government offers subsidized tax credits for you to get all of the training you need.

If you can’t see that as a possibility, I don’t know what to say other than I must be cynical as the past 2 years of watching Alphabet Agencies of the Federal Government break the law over and over, yet suffer 0 consequences.

So yeah I don’t trust our government with any additional information that could be used against me.

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If we don’t take charge who will? We are just not trying hard enough. Blaming others for my shortcomings is not an option for me. If I don’t achieve my goals it gives me purpose in life.

@Zavier_D I definitely see where you are coming from in that thought of me since I work for Delta Defense and I don’t take your comments as disrespectful at all. I do hope that you know I come to you in these conversations as a like-minded individual who supports the second amendment and less control or limitations of someone’s right to own firearms.

I do see this law differently than you I guess, so I would like to offer those thoughts.

This would not require gun owners who purchase things that are eligible for a tax credit to claim them on their taxes. If you or I didn’t want the government to know that I purchased them, then I simply don’t claim them. But, some individuals may not be as concerned about it and would like the ability to receive a tax credit for those purchases.

For me, I have purchased most of my firearms through a background check so there is already a paper trail to them as it is, so if I have the chance to receive more money back in taxes, I personally would take that opportunity.

We do agree that training is important and I will support and encourage people to train with all different organizations and instructors, not just USCCA Courses and instructors. I have had many conversations with gun owners that struggle to afford some of the training courses that are out there, but a $250 tax credit could help with that.

When it comes to court, EVERYTHING they can and will be used, I completely agree. I also see them using both arguments regardless of what tax credit law there is. If there is evidence of your training they will claim you should have known better and if there is no evidence of training they will say you should have been trained.

I would like to add that I don’t think you’re cynical at all, you simply have a different opinion and point of view, but I appreciate the different view points and healthy conversations discussing them!



Thank you for your response. My thoughts on the list, is it’s potential to be abused. You are right, there is more than enough room in this space for people to have divergent viewpoints.


I am not talking about a perfect world. I am talking about reality as it stands right now. I understand your thoughts and agree with you mostly. But that is not reality.

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This is why I do not want a centralized list.


Great video! Growing up my father worked for the federal government in the field of aviation. That is what makes me think I am part of that government. That sounds like a different government that you are talking about. When I think of government I think of the people that elect the politicians that make the laws to govern us. I don’t know any other positive way to think about it.


If only.

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Thanks for posting that vid. I was a fan of theirs until thus vid. Not to train, not to educate oneself for any reason, especially giving into fear of cross examination, it’s just not me, not part of my identity. To advise one “no to”, to me - a bit too scary.

But hey, if it’s one decision, “then you be you/more power to you”, if one chooses not to learn, and not to gain all of the benefits training provides; Won’t hold it against you, but please forgive me while I run for the hills away from that, in the opposite direction.

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Not sure if you are saying, I don’t believe in training. If you are saying that

What I don’t support is a centralized data base. Let me walk you through my concerns

  1. Our Government has shown that they have 0 qualms about violating Federal law, specifically the FOPA of 1987, as evidenced by the ATFE creating a data base with over 1 Billion records in it.

Bear with me here please.

  1. So, now there is a database of training, that is created by firearm owners. Specifically to reimburse them for $250 of the training you have taken. What I am concerned with is, that it becomes the new authoritative standard by which firearm owners are judged by in a self defence shooting.

A) The defendant was so irresponsible that he/she didn’t even engage in any of the training available, especially, since the Federal Government effectively pays for all gun owners to receive this training.

So Jurors would improperly consider this new bill as the new authoritative standard. So if you don’t use this bill you are irresponsible, if you do use this bill you are a danger.

I, also don’t want a one stop shop, for my training information.


Naaah, just the opposite, I’m for training. :grinning:


Im with you on the training Burdo. My reason is that I have taken a few newbie shooters to range in my time. Had to duck once or twice. Had to instill safety concepts right off that bat each time.


Just out of curiosity? Do you think what I am saying is “I am against people educating themselves or taking a part in training”?

I am not against that. I want people to get as much training as possible


I am sorry for being insulting if I am but I think your concern for the bad for what might happen if the government is involved in making a list is impeding you ability to see the good that could happen if more people are more educated about firearms. Just to be fair my concern for the good that could come out of it might impede my ability to see the bad. My fear( that I am examining) is we are going to loose our 2A rights if people are not educated about firearms especially the people that want to abolish the 2A.