@Zee @Daniel66 Many years ago I wrote to President Clinton. To be honest with all of you it’s so much time has elapsed I don’t remember what was the subject matter. My response from his office was (because you know Politicians are to busy, to important to write back to the little guy) I know if a person is a big money contributor they can get a letter or phone call. The body of his return letter was not even remotely related to the letter I originally sent to him. I guess it was a staffer who responded to my letter but they at least could have got the topic correct in my opinion.
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Yupp Yes sir I knew that, we get what we get
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@Zee Hey Zee,
Here’s the answer.
Multi Billionaire JB Pritzker ((D) Governor) Gun Control advocate
Mike Madigan (D) Speaker of the House of Representatives Gun Control
John Cullerton (D) Leader of the Senate
Gun Control advocate
Every Illinois Democrat there’s 40 Democrats and 19 Republicans
Madigan serves since 1971
Cullerton serves since 2009
Salary per representative $67,874/yr
4 year term except once each 10 years is a 2 year term.
Every Democrat is in favor of gun control
Every Republican is for “Reasonable Solutions”
At the Federal level Tammy Duckworth is in favor of restrictive second amendment for most. In other words even though she’s an Army Vet she became terrified of guns and wants to restrict the second amendment.
Dick Durbin tells me in his letter dated August 13, 2019 the Second Amendment is only for Hunting and not for self-protection.
There it is, Lincoln Land 
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Unfortunately true.
Anymore unless you are a big money contributor or happen to get a moment with the mike at a town hall and they are on camera we as individuals don’t have much in the way of influence over them anymore.
Our best hopes come from organizations such as the USCCA, 2nd Amendment Foundation, or NRA that have clout because of the dollars they can bring to bear as well as the knowledge they represent millions of votes.
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My friends, I would suggest you look at history as the past is a good predictor of the future. The simple fact is that no “great nation” with any history as such has ever “been conquered”, instead internal rot, corruption, and the loss of morality have led to an internal weakness and a vulnerability to outside attack (in whatever form it may come). You can look back at Eqypt, Carthage, Rome, etc. , or at the Chinese empire, the British Empire, or the Soviet Union. In every case, internal issues let to the collapse of the “Great Nation”. 120 years ago Great Britain ruled 1/4 of the earth, they adopted socialism, surrendered their weapons, (including rounding the points of their kitchen knives) and today control an island the size of Michigan. Rome controlled the known world until their citizens became to spoiled, lazy and indulgent to defend themselves. Take a close look at how far we’ve fallen in the last 40 years. Morality, and the sense of right and wrong has all been sacrificed to “political correctness”. The neo-socialists on the left have a number of folks contending for the Presidential nomination, not one of whom would not have been dragged before the House Unamerican Affairs Committee back in the early 1950’s for communist activities. If you look at the way our poor country is headed and it doesn’t scare the hell out of you, you are not really paying attention. We, as a people, badly need to pray and to vote!
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You won’t be able to “Wait through it”… That’s as foolish as the Jews saying “it won’t be so bad… we are still together”. When it happens HERE there will only be two options… go along or get crushed by “The new system”. I’m guessing you have never lived in a socialist regime or even seen one up close and personal. That’s the ONLY reason you could possibly hold that philosophy. Or has it not crossed your mind that IF the HARDLEFT wins in 2020 they’ll pass LAWS that make YOU a CRIMINAL, after which they can arrest you and put you in a “camp” because jails are already overflowing, which is why we have catch and release criminals. Also?? Bernie wants to give ALL CRIMINALS in jail “the vote”, including all the ILLEGALS… The inmates are in charge of the asylum… what now? Wait? for what? You don’t think our friends in Mexico will come across the border like locusts? Farmland and FOOD are the MOST NEEDED resource in the world, we have it, they want it, they’ll come and TAKE IT if there is a chance to… What then? Instead of having a short skirmish that settles Who’s Who in America we have an invasion from three sides, possibly co-ordinated, and America is no more. Perilous times indeed.
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Is Civil War inevitable? Considering we have been a unique nation in the world by tasting the blessing of individual rights like no others in history through our constitutional freedoms, this will be difficult to avoid. When the liberal anti-rights mentality reaches the point of tipping the scale toward descent into a “government’s rights” rather than the “citizen’s rights” nation, we will have arrived at a junction where freedom will at some point demand a decision. Pursue or relinquish. It is being assaulted now day after day. Freedom is being legislated/socially pressured away a little piece at a time. Scrutinizing what shirt or hat can be worn that is not offensive to the emotional; wanting to set guidelines on who a church should or shouldn’t conduct a marriage ceremony for, or what it should or shouldn’t be allowed to preach; whether or not a person will be permitted to protect themselves and what they can or can’t use to do it - as well as the places we should expect to just die if we go there rather than exercise our right to fight back if needed; how a baker has to decorate his cake; what will be the accepted thought on a given subject in school if you expect to pass (see link for example); what you have to proclaim as truth concerning genetics whether you believe it or not; what opinion is “selected” to appear on internet searches according to its particular stance; pre-convicting citizens by red flags of what “might” be on their minds in the future (this has 1984 all over it); and the list goes on & on & on………. @Dwayne has already touched on morality and corruption. It’s hard to imagine this transition we are fighting concluding peacefully, but I hesitate out of hope to declare it inevitable
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Ok, take a breath.
No I have not had to live inside a socialist system only observed from outside.
My position on “waiting it out” is assuming they don’t take actions like eliminating the electoral college, abolishing the 2nd amendment, creating concentration camps, etc.
If any of that gets set into motion all bets are off, but we need to make sure we actually engage in and use the political process and not just prematurely bloviate that we need to take arms up against the Government.
A civil war would be a serious and costly action that no rational person should wish for or unnecessarily push for. Let it be a last resort and not a first response.
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Please edit and break that into paragraphs. A wall of text is almost impossible to read and is very hard on the eyes. 
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James if we have a civil war it’s not going to look like the last one which was fought between states.
What we’d see would start with protests that turn violent, police standing down as they did in LA during the Rodney King Riots, and people having to form neighborhood militias to protect life and property.
Ferguson and Baltimore are as close as we’ve gotten in the last 20 or 25 years.
It would start probably with some form of gun grab. The anti gun left will pass them and there will be wide spread protests in support of same that turn violent with the help of groups like ANTIFA targeting pro 2nd Amendment and conservative groups.
It would get worse when LEO’s around the country refuse to enforce the bans/grab attempts and would then most likely end up largely resembling LA during the RK Riots or Detroit in 68.
You’d then end up with pro 2nd Amendment Groups and local/county/state LEO’s resisting with force when the National Guard was called up to do the enforcement. Of course the Guards would quickly fracture as local commanders refused to carry out the orders.
Hopefully before it got any worse some measure of common sense would start to take hold as the anti gun left realizes the true cost of attempting any form or confiscation but I wouldn’t count on it if they get control of both houses of congress and the WH.
Do I think it is likely or inevitable? No but it’s certainly a strong possibility.
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Agreed 100% with maybe the exception of LEOs refusing to follow orders.
I think there would be some, but I’ve listened to way too many podcasts to be convinced it would be the majority. Particularly in metro areas (maybe I’m listening to the wrong one’s)
Maybe more National guard commanders I think would be more likely to disobey (and Federal Troops) but certainly not all.
And definitely no trust in ATF or DHS (based on. recent history)
And again my position is it’s imperative that we avoid it, but no not at all/any cost.
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If you do a little research you’ll find that there are sheriffs and PC’s all over the country who are standing up and stating they will refuse to enforce such orders.
Many of them have flat out declared their jurisdictions to be “sanctuary zones” for gun owners.
What most people don’t understand is that in large cities the PC’s are basically just appointed politicians in uniform but in smaller communities they are actually part of the community and tend to reflect the “small town values” of rural America.
Sheriffs, generally but not universally tend to reflect the attitudes most prevalent in their counties and seem to take their Oaths much more seriously than the larger city PC"s.
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But I think that’s exactly what I’m talking about. So in major cities the LEOs will just follow orders. When you get to Missoula, MT or Grand Island, NE…then I agree they will be less likely if at all. I could even see in a State like TX were you would have San Antonio, PD clashing with Baxer County Sheriff’s Dept over the orders being followed vs not.
A perfect example to both of our points is the City of New Orleans, PD and their confiscation efforts during hurricane Katrina.
Sorry, sir I just don’t think there will be as many as we might hope for. I’ve heard many of those LEOs you refer to above (ok, probably not the same specific ones) pandering to a crowd talking about how they would follow their oath and uphold the Constitution, but in post off stage interviews were saying they would follow orders in order to protect their jobs/families/etc. I pray I’m wrong.
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No I think you’re incorrect there. The PC may give the orders but those guys who have to go kick the doors are going to split and fracture almost immediately.
It would be their friends, family, and even fellow officers who’s doors they’d have to be kicking in to enforce bans/confiscation.
That becomes a very personal thing for all of them. We’d see the same with the guard and both active and reserve military.
I"ve worked and taught a lot of LEO’s from Austin, Houston, DFW particularly in RSO classes and inevitably this is a subject that comes up in discussion and at least 3/4 of them have said, not no, but “hell no”.
Other instructors and LEO’s I’ve discussed it with around the country have felt similarly albeit not always quite in such large numbers.
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Did that stop them in New Orleans?
Again, I hope you’re right on this and actually feel a little better that you’ve done a considerable bit of surveying and have received those responses.
And actually, my hope is that we never have to find out.
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It stopped a lot of them in LA, even some in NO. The big problem with NO is that it was among the most Crooked and abusive departments in the country for decades. A whole bunch of those guys ended up out of a job and in prison in the aftermath of Katrina.
It was unfortunately hard to get on that department without being crooked as hell.
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History… my parents were immigrants, the right way. They survived WWII under German occupation, and told “us kids” about their friends killed by Nazis, or disappeared without a trace, and HOW it started… The parallels are frightening. If my response seemed “over zealous” consider the background.
German Jews took the rantings too lightly, always waiting for the outbreak of sanity. It came with American Bombers. Even then Hitler’s war machine and PR flacks were bragging about victories that never were. How much Fake News do WE see every day. Vigilance can only take you so far, and only IF you can get TRUE information. We are living in interesting times indeed. Glad my folks are not here to see this, they’d be terrified.
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