There are places where you are armed it’s a felony & there are places where it’s a fine. Is your life worth a couple of bucks?
First, we have a right. We all have rights, and they are equal rights.
The right to swing my fist ends where the other man’s nose begins. ~ Attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr… but perhaps more directly to ;
John B. Finch who in 1882 stated “Yes, but your right to swing your arm leaves off where my right not to have my nose struck begins.”
In other words, your right to carry ends at the door to their business, which is where their right begins.
Second, I try to avoid places where they do not want my firearm, but if I must enter, I respect their rights, respect their rules, and secure my firearm and do not carry.
The question is, are we ‘Responsibly Armed Americans’ or simply a bunch of yahoos who think they can do as they want, regardless of the rights of others.
It depends. Some states have laws that say if a licensed ccw holder is injured in a self defense scenario, because of the “Gun Free Zone” sign, then they are liable for your safety.
Sometimes I don’t think like regular folk. Sometimes I just go my own way. Sometimes it’s not right. Sometimes I’m a yahooooo
OK, as long as you know you are a yahoo and disrespect the rights of others.
sorry, but my opinion on that is you can not respect the Constitution much, if you disregard rights of others so readily.
There is no chargeable offense where I am for a ‘no guns’ sign, they can ask you to leave, and if you do, not problem, it only becomes criminal trespass if you refuse to leave.
The point I consider is, they have equal rights to me, and if they do not want me to carry in their business, I go to another business.
The idea that, just because we can conceal and carry any way, or in those states with specific legal signage criteria, if the sign does not meet the exact legal requirement it can be ignored, is just totally counter to anything resembling responsible armed citizens.
Well at least your sorry for your opinion. Have a nice night
Not at all, my opinion is correct.
Those who think their right is superior to the rights of others are sorry.
But have a nice night.
Lawyers are like car salesman. If you get a good car salesman you will be leaving with a car whether you actually really wanted to buy a car at that time or not. A good Lawyer is the same, If you have a traumatic experience at a store you should be good to go. Notice I did say a good Lawyer. If you slip and fall in the store and get hurt you can sue so If you get hurt or have a traumatic experience you have something.
I am not a Lawyer but I know some, as well as, some good car salesman, That is why I drive a 2020 Jeep.
No, your opinion is flawed. YOUR opinion ignores the LAW. If the law says an establishment is liable for your safety, while they deny you the right to carry a firearm in their business, then you are entitled BY LAW to monetary compensation for injuries stemming from not having a means to defend yourself.
That’s why being a Responsible Gun Owner, is knowing the law where you are.
My opinion is based on the Constitution.
You do not have a right to shop in a store, you do not have a right to carry on the property of another person, and if you enter the property or business of another person, they are not responsible for you. You freely chose to enter. You could have freely gone to another business.
Let’s try this slow as it seems to be getting rather confused and messed up.
Your right ends when the right of another begins.
They are NOT denying you your right to carry in their business, you do not HAVE a right to carry in their business… unless THEY allow it.
If your state has set some legal requirement for the business to provide security, that is your state.
Does that also follow that if you go to a private individual’s property, and they do not want your firearm on their property you will disregard their right to not have your firearm on their property? Are they liable for your safety if you remain at their …let’s say… cookout?
There are rights and freedom. You have a right to carry, that ends at their door. You have the freedom to either secure your firearm or go to another business.
If you choose to enter their business anyway (and forget laws on signage or anything like that, just the basic rights we all have), you are disrespecting their rights, and you do not even have a right to be there. There is no right to go to and eat at any specific restaurant, nor is there a right to shop at a specific store.
Based on the Constitution and the principle of equal rights, once you step across their threshold, you are stating you will honor their rights and rules… or you should not enter.
I don’t see why you couldn’t.
I’m not saying I want it to go down this road because it’s a very big can of worms. But at some point we have to hold anti gun policies to the same standards they are holding gun owners and manufacturers too.
Personally I dont do business with places that don’t allow concealed carry. When it comes to government business I secure my firearm in my vehicle and spend as little time as possible doing whatever business I am there to do.
I dont want to quote your entire post but I agree 100% with it
And if their state has a written law, stating their liability, then they are assuming your safety by not allowing you to carry in their establishment. Said laws do not apply to a residence. That’s a different ball game.
If you get hurt in law of self defense, in their business, they ARE legally liable. And that state law, would stand up to the scrutiny of the Constitution, under the 10th Amendment.
True, we do need to hold anti-gun polices to the same standards, and I still do not see how anyone can hold a firearms manufacturer accountable for the actions of others who USE the firearm criminally or negligently.
I, like you, try to avoid doing business with any business that does not allow either open or concealed carry, but I do at times find it required, and at those times, the responsible thing to do is honor any rules or request to not carry in their business.
We all have a right to carry, but that right ends at the door to their business or property, unless they allow us to carry.
I still say, under the Constitution, we all have a right to carry, but that right ends at their door to their business, or their property line.
You do not have a right to carry on their property, nor do you have a right to enter their business, you are free to do so, but you are also free to go to another business that allows firearms.
If your state makes the business liable for your safety, not just regarding accidents and wet floors or snow covered parking lots, or broken glass, but if someone enters and robs the store or commits other crimes and harms people, that is something different and that is a state law that puts a burden of liability on the business…
but that is not in every state.
Again, my comment was not state specific, or dealing with any laws that place liability for safety against crimes of other people on the business, but strictly dealing with the Constitution and our equal rights.
What I am stating is the same for private property, if you go to a neighbors home for a cookout, and they do not allow firearms, your right to carry ends at their property line, you decide to either leave your firearm secured off their property, or not go onto their property.
I am not speaking to specific state laws. Perhaps that is where the divide is.
I think this is the issue.
That is what I have concluded. You keep speaking to state specific laws, and I am speaking to the Constitution.
Yes, we all must know our state laws, and the laws of states we go to, and any local laws that may impact us… such as you stating your state law places a liability burden on a business if they do not allow for firearms to be carried, and a criminal causes harm, but that is not something I have in my state. I think we have been crossing past each other speaking of similar things but not on the same page.
I am not arguing with your state laws, only what the rights we all have. I personally consider it responsible to honor their rights and rules… and take my money elsewhere.
I agree and so long as the signs are posted in accordance with the law I abide by them. Many businesses in Arkansas however do not post the proper signage. I dont make a deal of it or point it out. I just quietly go about my day.
But I completely agree with your statement on my rights end where yours begins. Its a hard pill to swallow but I do believe its correct. And too many people (not pointing to anyone in this thread) have a skewed view on what exactly their rights are
I do not have signage requirements and no sign law, but I consider it responsible to honor their rights and rules… and take my money elsewhere.
Another individual pointed out his state had a law that required a business when they post a no guns sign to be liable for any injuries from the criminal activity of another, that is not in my state… so we all have individual state laws we must know, but to me the Constitution is the supreme law.
It is difficult to consider we can not carry everywhere, or should not, but it is responsible to follow the rules and honor the rights of others.
We have far too many anti-gun attacks to allow for something to provide another means of attack against those who carry.
Common ground. I even have an app on my phone to tell me if they are 2A friendly or not. I think where our conversation went sideways was the legal aspect. They have every right to deny me entry if I’m carrying, and I have every right to go elsewhere. My angle was, if I ignore their right to not want me there, I’m not breaking the law, as written.
I do abide by the law, wherever I am. Thankfully, only a minute handful of places where I live, don’t like gun owners. The ones that don’t, usually aren’t open very long.