Can refusing a search request create grounds for probable cause ? ( or effectively so )

Elsewhere, I commented: “Address the cause, not the outcome.”
(Replace Police (Defund Police Services) - #94 by techs)

Is there a reason why vicarious liability does not attach to the individual superiors hiding behind sovereign immunity in these cases — instead of requiring each individual subordinate to fight for qualified immunity?

With civil liability, most claimants sue the specific officer(s) involved, as well as the chain of command as well as the training leaders. But, since all of them are the agents of the city, county or state entity, it all falls on the principal that employs them.
Our laws are much more protective when it comes to criminal laws. In order to move up the good chain, there has to proof of criminal intent and a criminal act on the part of the superiors to pursue criminal charges. Generally, negligence and omissions fail to justify criminal prosecution.

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Also, at least in civil cases, the city, county or state retain and pay the lawyers for the individual officers since they are the ones who end up responsible for satisfying a judgement.

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I talked to a highway patrolman a few months ago about the number of bad/inept officers out there. His comment was that if the officers were required to carry their own insurance to pay for their mistakes or misdeeds the system itself would work to expose and drive out bad officers. Qualified immunity is just a way for those mistakes and misdeeds to be put on the taxpayer… it should be on the officers themselves.

I hear you but I think what would really happen is it would drive out the good officers and would discourage possible candidates from applying. We can agree to disagree.
Your post started pointing at the Tamir Rice shooting. That shooting was determined to be justified by both state and federal investigators.
If the shooting was justified, why should the officer be held civilly liable.
Maybe the bigger question should be why did Cleveland settle a lawsuit for 6 million that was determined to be justified? Why wasn’t the lawsuit dismissed?

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None of my posts started out referencing any criminals killed by the police. I’m all for lawful actions of the police being protected… Its those officers who are relying on qualified immunity or betting that victims of police crimes/misconduct cannot/will not get an attorney. IF I alluded to any person(s) killed by police, it would be those like the man in Wichita ,KS who was swatted, or the gal who was gunned down in her own home (FT. Worth) without knowing who was in her yard and was given NO warning by the officer who shot her… there are 223 more examples from 2019 alone.

Here’s the first sentence of the link you posted.

In 2016, Cleveland agreed to pay $6 million to the family of Tamir Rice, the 12-year-old boy shot and killed by a police officer in late 2014.

Can you practice here in Mississippi?

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My point is that departments paid our 3 BILLION dollars. I agree… why did they pay out? My guess is because of race and cowardice.

And another way for the police to handle bad officers is for the good officers to not only expose bad officers, but work to have badges to be removed-- but I don’t see that happening… perhaps victims of police misconduct should have their legal bills paid by the departments…

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I am 100% on board with police exposing bad officers. I think this is the biggest problem. Officers failing to advise their superiors of the bad acts of others leaves bad officers on the streets. Unfortunately, you and I both know that some will not do so because of the so called “blue code” and others fear the retribution of other officers or the administration. The latter is happening in Louisville now! It is wrong and it needs to stop.
Bad officers make all officers look bad.

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I am licensed to practice in Kentucky and admitted to the bars for the United States District Courts for the Eastern and Western Districts of Kentucky, the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit and the Supreme Court of the United States.
I am not licensed to practice in Mississippi courts.

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Well, I am in KY, but if the need should arise, would you consider driving 3 hrs west to handle my case? :crossed_fingers:

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Well that sucks.

If something happens, call me. I will help you as best I can.

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Thanks, Mike. You’ll be first in my Rolodex. (That will give you a clue to how old I am!)

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@David38, you can add @MikeBKY as your attorney of choice on your USCCA Membership Account. That doesn’t guarantee MikeBKY will be your attorney – I’m sure he’s in high demand – but it does signify he’s your first choice.

If I ever have an issue in KY, I’ll be reaching out to @MikeBKY! (This is a personal opinion, not an official declaration, but with how much I’ve talked to him over the Community, I feel like I know him.) :smiley:

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In the real world, nope. Once the prosecutor’s office (or, more likely, a field supervisor) learned of this HUMBUG, the deputy prompting this lawsuit bait would likely be re-assigned to jail duty at my old shop.

I can’t speak for other agencies, but at my old shop (inland southern California) you didn’t need to “go fishing” to find real crimes and evidence of same. It was more a matter if triage and “Choose the most serious offense” than any sort of fishing trip. My patrol shifts ran 5-15 calls behind all shift long, and as a detective I always had at least 12-15 open cases working. There is no time for humbug enforcement nonsense of the sort alluded to above, because while a deputy was tied up on HUMBUG his or her beat partners were working their aspirations off keeping up with the 24/7 nonsense that goes on in modern societies–most of which is fueled by intoxicants and greed. We got rid of personnel that pulled these shenanigans.

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I got a lot more than I expected out of asking this question. Thanks to all for so many good, informative responses.

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