Can a citizen arrest a Police officer in the commission of a crime?

This is a bad situation. What I feel needed to happen was the fellow cops should have done something in the Floyd’s situation.

What would have happened if, during the Floyd’s incident, bystanders jumped in to help? I think the police would have gotten off, and the intervening persons would have been charged.

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Bingo.

In my state, interfering with a law enforcement officer in the legal execution of his duties is a class D felony. If you had a good lawyer, perhaps you could convince a court that those officers were exceeding their authority and were no longer executing their duties in a legal manner. But if your intervention were successful, the suspect would have lived, and there would be little facts or outrage to support your assertion.

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Interfering with a police officer during an arrest is absolutely a NO NO

Regardless of the circumstances / I would like to think that people would actually help anyone in distress / and in many cases you see people help - even help police officers - I am a strong believer that most people are caring supportive people - there is an invisible line for most common folk with common sense to know regardless how horrific a scene may be you do not cross that invisible police line - (Almost like a dog with an electrical fence) Again the biggest evidence/Tool here is the camera and it does not always catch everything - Lots of variables- I had a discussion with my son regarding police brutality - unfortunately the media has capture a number of law enforcement officers being abusive and aggressive - this is the opportunity to improve the programs of training and to remove the bad apples that exist - My opinion is and has always been -Money and Power corrupt- there is a solution to this there just needs some effort -

Think of one more thing, imagine that George Floyd had a CCW would there even be a video -

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Supposedly the 2A allowed citizens to carry guns to protect them from the government. The local police are enforcing local government laws and the national guard state government laws and the regular military federal. During these protest which is allowed under the 1A; can armed PROTESTERS shoot at the government enforcers who get heavy handed?

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This would be a very extreme situation. I’ve been thinking and cannot think of a situation that would arise and justify shooting at LEO or National Guard. The reason I say that is they too have the right to defend themselves and unless you’ve seen the entire situation play out you might not know why they have gotten “heavy handed”. With the current political climate filming and gathering details would be in my opinion the better option. The reason I say that is if we play out the scenario of someone defending a citizen against LEO with deadly force understand that they have been engaged them and they will come after the person like they’re a cop killer. I don’t speak in absolutes because opinions change however can you imagine a case so extreme that you’re prepared to have the PD hunt you down as a cop killer to defend a stranger without knowing exactly what is going on?

When I use the word you please understand I’m not calling you out, its a great scenario to think through and everyone has different lines they’ve drawn in the sand. Thank you for the thought provoking scenario

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Hope you don’t mind I combined this with a topic started a few days ago, @Dana7.

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What if you know the apprehension to be illegal? Like the case in NYC and now Floyd if you see the cop killing someone I would hope you could intervene and a jury see you are innocent.

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As we’ve discussed on some other threads, your best weapon is your camera.

I’m being pragmatic. Let’s say you find a group of people who appear to be acting out of accordance with the law. That doesn’t give you the right to shoot them.

Level up: it’s a group of police officers endangering the life of a person. First, you have to be damned sure that’s what you’re witnessing. People who are unfamiliar with police work don’t always understand what’s happening. If you interfere with police who are apprehending a suspect, you could be charged with a felony.

If you are sure and draw your weapon to intervene, you’re facing down multiple armed police officers with your one little pew pew. How are you going to assist anyone when you’re dead? What crime will those officers be convicted of if you drew first?

Finally, remember that only riot police are issued rubber bullets. Police on patrol, as well as Soldiers, are issued bullets that don’t bounce off people. If you really think they’re up to no good, what would make you assume they won’t put some holes in you, too?

Bottom line: don’t point your pistol at a police officer or a Soldier. Even if you’re in the right, you’ll lose. Take pictures or video if you can. As my grandfather taught me, you can file the report later if you survive.

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I agree with @Ouade5. If you pull your weapon on an officer all the officers there will return the favor, and a police officer won’t just give you a tap or two. Unless things have changed and dead men can suddenly tell tales, you just died for :poop:.

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If saving a victim’s life from police torture is worth your own, with the possibility of being wrong on the circumstances, and you still want to be the sheepdog, then yes, feel free to intervene by detaining or shooting the perceived offender, to protect someone else’s life.

Unless it’s me or one of my family being wronged, it’s not for me. Sorry.

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While the Second Amendment has been held to extend to self defense, the Supreme Court has not yet spoken on whether that right applies outside the home. Both Heller and McDonald spoke only to the right to bear arms in self defense in the home.
State laws determine what use of force can be used in self defense and in defense of others. You would need to look at your particular laws with respect to what your state allows.
Assuming the law gave an absolute right to act, you need to look at the practicality of doing so. If, as in the Floyd incident, you shot at Chauvin, you would likely be looking down the barrels of the other three officers. Likewise, shooting at the police or Guard as a protester would almost certainly draw fire on yourself, potentially injuring or killing you or those around you. It would also depend on what you mean by heavy handed. Your use of force has to be reasonable. The use of deadly force is only authorized if you are in fear of serious physical injury or death. If you act and you are wrong, you will be prosecuted and will likely be sent to prison.

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How do you know the apprehension is 100% illegal?

A jury might see you as innocent, however, they might not. And we’re talking years and a lot of money to get to the point where a jury is even considering the question of your innocence.

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I might no know but what if someone walking by knows and ex cop perhaps

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So basically the 2A is old and outdated We are not allowed to defend ourselves against the government except in very specific cases like in Houston were the EMT was killed.

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Exactly. I always go back to Massad Ayoob’s example of showing you don’t really know what’s going on: You come across a man wrestling a woman on the ground and she is screaming rape. You draw on him. It turns out he is a vice cop trying to arrest a prostitute and she is screaming rape, because that is what actually happens. You have now assaulted a police officer, interfered with an arrest, etc. because you didn’t have all the information. You blew it on the “to the innocent” part of the justification for use of lethal force.

If we step back from the racial component, as I understand it Mr. Floyd was being apprehended for a minor crime. He resisted getting into the patrol car because of claustrophobia. What was explained to me many years ago was that police are permitted to use any level of force (shy of lethal force) to get you to comply with their instructions. Mr. Floyd failed to comply with Chauvin’s instructions to get in the patrol car, and Chauvin escalated the force level attempting to gain compliance until he used a technique that was ultimately lethal. So now you, Mr. Good Citizen, come across the scene at some point and see Chauvin with his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck and assume that it is an illegal apprehension and that you will intervene? The only problem is that you have no idea if you are in the legal portion of the arrest cycle or the portion where it has crossed into a crime. Indeed if Mr. Floyd had not died then the crime was a potential police brutality charge, something that Chauvin sadly was apparently very familiar with. You as Mr. Good Citizen could have supported Mr. Floyd in pressing a police brutality case as a witness, or with financial support. But to directly intervene you would have had to know when Chauvin’s right to use force to compel compliance crossed into clearly criminal territory. It might be pretty easy to see in hindsight, but not in the heat of the moment.

And now, because I’d be remiss in ignoring the racial component, I will add it back in. Everything is the same in the example right up until Mr. Floyd refuses to get in the patrol car saying he is claustrophobic. If Mr. Floyd is White does Chauvin take a different approach? Call for a larger vehicle? Call for an ambulance? Etc. But because Mr. Floyd is Black, Chauvin chooses to escalate force to gain compliance. That’s the hypothesis, right? Sorry, I don’t really want to debate that all here. I didn’t want to ignore it either.

Bottom line is that you will almost never have enough information at your disposal to really know if a police officer is doing something illegal to a third-party that could justify your interfering with their actions in real time. You do have the ability to file a complaint, or support someone elses, after the fact.

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Even then they’ll try to charge you with attempted murder of a police officer for defending yourself. And they’d still clear themselves of all wrong doing anyway

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@MikeBKY and @Virgil_H

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/06/05/buffalo-emergency-response-team-quits-in-solidarity-of-cops/amp/

57 officers resigned IN SUPPORT of the 2 officers who shoved a 75 year old man causing him to fracture his skull and start bleeding from his ears… The resigned not because of the needless violence, but in support of the 2 officers who needlessly shoved the old man were suspended… Not fired and charged like they should have been but suspended… If that’s not what a gang does, supporting each other after having done something horrible, than I guess I need to watch some Hells Angels, Pagans, Bloods, Latin King’s, and Crips videos. Cause they stand in solidarity after doing ■■■■ like that too. Actually now that I think of it, I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen any of those gangs shove a 75 year old man like that and get away with it.

Yes the bad cops are gangs with badges and they are no better than ANY of those gangs.

This is not said by me in anger, just making my point known. You can Google the article and see it covered by any news agency of your choice. They all say the same thing.

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We are going to see a lot of police resigning. They are fed up too. Several officers killed by mobs in the last week, one in Vegas on life support and hundreds injured in the riots ranging from critical condition to minor. This is not an excuse, but the police are angry too and many are obviously at their breaking point.

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Let us just agree to disagree sir. I am sure I could get on the internet and find way more examples of horrific gang crime than police brutality.

Until the Police start slinging drugs and killing each other in turf wars, this gang label of yours seems a bit contrived. The cops dont do blood-in, blood-out either. They dont rob peoples houses. They dont kill kids by accident during drive-by shootings. Gangs dont have Internal Affairs Departments.

I am quite sure many 75 + year old people have been beaten and robbed or killed by gang members; or by junkies needing money to buy drugs sold by gang members.
A whole bunch of police die in this country every year protecting us. Are there bad cops? Sure there are. A Gang? Gangs of bad cops?

Just let us agree to disagree please. You need not waste your time trying to convince me you are right about this gang business. I am very angry about the demonization of our police. I am convinced that such talk can lead to very, very bad outcomes for us all. Things that insulated, spoiled so-called citizens cant begin to imagine. I can, I have seen places with little or no police protection.

I really dont want to discuss this further.

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I hope not, but I couldn’t blame them if they did. Every night, they go out and follow the mayor’s orders. They watch as looters destroy businesses, and the mayor blames them. They protect key infrastructure, and the mayor blames them. They enforce the mayor’s curfew, and the mayor blames them. They protect protesters, who try very hard to get them top drop their guard. At night, rioters throw bricks and explosives at them, and the press blames them. White police are called racists. Black police are called much worse. They are paid little, but told that they caused the problem, and their families have been targeted online.

What job is worth that?

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