# Brandishing vs showing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Legal & Second Amendment\ **Created:** [August 29, 2024, 7:37pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117 "2024-08-29T19:37:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![OldDude49](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/olddude49/32/40194_2.png) [@OldDude49](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/OldDude49)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 7:37pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/1 "2024-08-29T19:37:36Z")
here is a question that occurred to me… you find yourself at a gas station or where ever… drove there or rode… depending… and someone took offense or some such and followed you and gets all road ragged at ya… starts screaming and even starts making threats… if you move aside you coat or vest or whatever and let me see you carrying but you don’t touch it… but you do have your hand ready so to speak… is that brandishing??? you of course hopefully end the thing there and of course call 911 immediately after… OH here is a thing… was living in some apartments for a time… was walking back from the mail box’s and some ejit droves up and tells me he’s got his 357 and threatens me (doesn’t produce it or show it BTW) this back around 1990 ish… made me angry and I replied wait right there n let me go get my 44… he put it in gear and backed away… WTAF is wrong with such people??? what do they hope to create or accomplish with that sh\*t??? ---
**Author:** ![Ron43xMOS](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/ron43xmos/32/137450_2.png) [@Ron43xMOS](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Ron43xMOS)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 8:09pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/2 "2024-08-29T20:09:47Z")
In my mind, brandishing is an ACTION verb, requiring the person to at least wave the firearm indiscriminately, if not pointing directly at another person or between two or more persons. For me, just touching the firearm in its holster does not constitute “brandishing” so much as it does posturing. As for. “WTAF is wrong with such people??? what do they hope to create or accomplish with that sh\*t?” Some people just get off on what they feel is control. Once you challenged him he folded like a cheap knife. Fear is the bully’s weapon of choice. ---
**Author:** ![Mike164](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/mike164/32/52494_2.png) [@Mike164](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Mike164)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 8:19pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/3 "2024-08-29T20:19:39Z")
From here:[https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapter10/76-10-S506.html\*\*\*Effective](https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapter10/76-10-S506.html***Effective) 5/14/2019\*\*\* **76-10-506.** **Threatening with or using dangerous weapon in fight or quarrel.** (1) As used in this section: (a) “Dangerous weapon” means an item that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury. The following factors shall be used in determining whether an item, object, or thing is a dangerous weapon: (i) the character of the instrument, object, or thing; (ii) the character of the wound produced, if any; and (iii) the manner in which the instrument, object, or thing was exhibited or used. **(b) “Threatening manner” does not include:** (i) the possession of a dangerous weapon, whether visible or concealed, without additional behavior which is threatening; or **(ii) informing another of the actor’s possession of a deadly weapon to prevent what the actor reasonably perceives as a possible use of unlawful force by the other** and the actor is not engaged in any activity described in Subsection [76-2-402(3)(a)](https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapter2/76-2-S402.html?v=C76-2-S402_2019051420190514#76-2-402(3)(a)). So it looks like, around here, If I reasonably perceive a threat I can actually tell the guy I have it I can show my firearm. ---
**Author:** ![Robert1246](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/robert1246/32/39522_2.png) [@Robert1246](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Robert1246)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 8:23pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/4 "2024-08-29T20:23:42Z")
He was making verbal threats. You are making visual threat. If he takes it as a deadly threat he could try to harm you in a way so you can’t use your weapon. As far as your question goes, it is up to the judge. Best to play it smart and not make threats. ---
**Author:** ![OldDude49](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/olddude49/32/40194_2.png) [@OldDude49](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/OldDude49)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 8:44pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/5 "2024-08-29T20:44:53Z")
perhaps I should have pointed out I live in Nevada… ---
**Author:** ![Trever1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/trever1/32/134369_2.png) [@Trever1](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Trever1)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 9:24pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/6 "2024-08-29T21:24:35Z")
If you were to follow me to my house and run your yap…you just f…d up. ---
**Author:** ![Robert1246](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/robert1246/32/39522_2.png) [@Robert1246](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Robert1246)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/7 "2024-08-29T21:26:08Z")
The way I see it, guns are for saving lives. If one thinks they are going to save someone’s life by showing them there gun than be my guest. I can’t think of any situation that can happen except if one is teaching someone else how to safely use one. I would not show my gun to a threat or potential threat unless I intended to fire it. ---
**Author:** ![Mike164](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/mike164/32/52494_2.png) [@Mike164](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Mike164)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 9:36pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/8 "2024-08-29T21:36:06Z")
You really don’t think “I have a gun and I will shoot you!!” can ever change the mind of an attacker? ---
**Author:** ![Robert1246](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/robert1246/32/39522_2.png) [@Robert1246](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Robert1246)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 9:51pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/10 "2024-08-29T21:51:37Z")
Yes of course it can. Just wearing a police uniform and open carrying is enough to stop most would be attackers. It’s when you intentionally show your gun when it gets complicated. It doesn’t give the impression one is trying to de-escalate. ---
**Author:** ![Robert1246](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/robert1246/32/39522_2.png) [@Robert1246](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Robert1246)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 10:22pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/12 "2024-08-29T22:22:03Z")
I know what you mean. The thing is when a crime is stopped one doesn’t hear about it because it never happened.😂😂 ---
**Author:** ![BeanCounter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/beancounter/32/173526_2.png) [@BeanCounter](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/BeanCounter)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/13 "2024-08-29T22:30:13Z")
> [@OldDude49](#): > > if you move aside you coat or vest or whatever and let me see you carrying but you don’t touch it… > > but you do have your hand ready so to speak… is that brandishing??? Short answer, yes. ---
**Author:** ![OldDude49](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/olddude49/32/40194_2.png) [@OldDude49](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/OldDude49)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 10:56pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/14 "2024-08-29T22:56:30Z")
hope an attorney can respond if possible… and yes I understand it depends on the state and location within the state so… please advise… ---
**Author:** ![Karacal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/karacal/32/146742_2.png) [@Karacal](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Karacal)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 10:59pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/15 "2024-08-29T22:59:10Z")
These days if anyone sees just the grip they can say they felt threatened. ---
**Author:** ![Robert1246](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/robert1246/32/39522_2.png) [@Robert1246](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Robert1246)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 11:22pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/16 "2024-08-29T23:22:33Z")
[![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/dd_dev/original/3X/6/1/61870021791ae52bdea7d0fe07760234d9577773.jpeg "Brandishing Your Firearm - What Does It Mean And How To AVOID It...") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qe2dKN2lcE) ---
**Author:** ![deranged](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deranged](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/deranged)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 12:13am UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/17 "2024-08-30T00:13:14Z")
> [quote=“OldDude49, post:1, topic:107117”] > (doesn’t produce it or show it BTW) > [/quote] Unless displayed I would walk away after allowing ample time for ijit to “clarify” his intentions. In the meantime I would be aggressively staging my draw while keeping my weapon concealed as ijit thinks over the possibility of his last moments remaining on this earth. ---
**Author:** ![JLC](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/jlc/32/104515_2.png) [@JLC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/JLC)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 3:17am UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/18 "2024-08-30T03:17:25Z")
Robert1246, absolutely what I’m thinking since I’m reading this thread. 1. if I’m displaying/pulling my gun, it’s because I’m about to use it. At the very least, it’s coming out and acquire my target and wether I pull the trigger or not depends on the situation. So I would not display or mention my weapon if I don’t intend to use it. 2. carrying conceal gives a decisive tactical advantage against an attacker. If you display or mention your firearm before you’re actually ready to use it, you lost that concealment advantage. My take is situation awareness, extract yourself from dangerous situations and the last resort is pulling it without warning, acquire and be ready to suppress the threat. ---
**Author:** ![Karacal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/karacal/32/146742_2.png) [@Karacal](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Karacal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 3:38am UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/19 "2024-08-30T03:38:09Z")
> [@JLC](#): > > My take is situation awareness, extract yourself from dangerous situations and the last resort is pulling it without warning, acquire and be ready to suppress the threat. ^^^^^^^^ ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/dd_dev/original/3X/9/1/91624a7bcd438b1aed093492a5eac64e5892ed43.png) ---
**Author:** ![David38](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/david38/32/3234_2.png) [@David38](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/David38)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 5:08am UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/20 "2024-08-30T05:08:52Z")
> [@Robert1246](#): > > when you intentionally show your gun when it gets complicated. It doesn’t give the impression one is trying to de-escalate. I asked this in another thread and pretty much received the same answers. I maintain that under specific conditions, BEFORE reaching the kill-or-be-killed stage, showing your weapon to a threatening (not assaulting) individual who claims to have a weapon IS a form of de-escalation. By showing the assailant that you are equipped and prepared to defend yourself you may open up a moment of time in which he can reconsider his intentions. That is at least an opportunity for de-escalation. Even if you disagree with everything I say, remember this: **ONLY THE AGGRESSOR CAN DE-ESCALATE!! YOU CAN"T!!** As the target all you can do is make the suggestion, hope for the best, and hope/believe you’re prepared for the worst. The sticky bit is that the aggressor has to agree to the suggestion. Once the balloon goes up, you have a certain (varying) amount of control over only four choices: Run, Hide, Fight, Die. That’s it. Let me throw in a twist. He’s the scene: Say you’re walking to your car. A man steps out of the dark, opens his jacket to show a weapon in his waistband (he doesn’t actually draw) and says something like “Gimme your wallet or I f\*ck you up.” You say, “OK. Take it easy.” Then you make like you’re reaching for your wallet but you actually draw your weapon and take aim. _Here’s the decision point_----Sure, you could fire to stop the threat and from a legal standpoint you MAY be OK. But what if you take a breath and say something like, “I don’t want to shoot you. How about we both just walk away?” Technically I may be guilty of ‘brandishing’, but just as technically I may have just saved one or two lives. My philosophy, admittedly untested, is to fire only if absolutely necessary. If there is an opportunity to create some space between drawing and firing, space the assailant can use to change course, I feel morally bound to try to create that space. He can walk away or he can draw, but it’s his choice to de-escalate or not. If he draws, then I can fire. ---
**Author:** ![Robert1246](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/robert1246/32/39522_2.png) [@Robert1246](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/Robert1246)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 2:07pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/21 "2024-08-30T14:07:44Z")
Right from the beginning if he showed me his gun that is when I would make my decision to fire or not. Showing my gun is an escalation. If I thought my life was in danger I would draw and fire. If not I would give him what he wanted or walk away. I would not do the monkey dance with him. ---
**Author:** ![David38](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/community.usconcealedcarry.com/david38/32/3234_2.png) [@David38](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/u/David38)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 3:15pm UTC](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117/22 "2024-08-30T15:15:44Z")
Real life is made up of innumerable variables. > [@Robert1246](#): > > Right from the beginning if he showed me his gun that is when I would make my decision to fire or not. So, no attempt to “de-escalate” by any means? Let’s make a small change to the scenario. The would-be robber says, “Gimme your wallet”, moves his jacket to display a weapon at his waist, but doesn’t make any verbal threat. Note that in this version of the scenario he hasn’t touched his weapon, he has only shown you that he has one. He’s not touching it, he hasn’t drawn it or pointed it, hasn’t made any statements about hurting, killing, or f’ing you up. So far, it’s bluster. An argument could be made that, while the situation is definitely dangerous, the danger to life and limb isn’t yet immediate. (Not saying that I would make that argument, but somebody surely will.) Would you still draw and fire without hesitation? Might you draw but not fire in order to give _him_ a chance to walk away? These things can evolve very quickly. Consider that as you make your move to draw, he might begin to turn and run and you end up putting rounds in his back. It might be very, very difficult to convince anyone of the immediate threat to your life when the man is face down, empty handed, and shot in the back. Even a video might not help. > [@Robert1246](#): > > I not I would give him what he wanted or walk away. From the context I think you’re saying that you " would not give him what he wanted or walk away", but I may be mis-reading that. Just so I understand correctly, are you saying you _would_ or _would not_ give him what he wants, and that you _would_ or _would not_ walk away? To not even consider the possibility of giving up your wallet or of walking away seems to ignore a great deal of what is constantly taught to us about self defense and 'de-escalation"–“Always avoid or escape if safely possible” appears in every bit of advice and training I’ve ever been given, both from the USCCA and everywhere else. All of this is meant as a thought experiment. In an actual event only YOU can decide what to do and how to respond. Thinking about these things beforehand may help you/me/us make the best decision in the real moment. So far as this little experiment goes, we may just have to agree to disagree. Stay safe, and good fortune to you. [Next page](https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/brandishing-vs-showing/107117.md?page=2)