@Zee Funny Zee, I didn’t know. Thanks for bringing me up to speed.
2 Likes
@MikeBKY
“FREE” education with the GI Bill?
I do hope you’re being facetious. Trust me, it’s NOT free. It’s part of a contractual agreement. The same is true about VA disability. Even organized crime families take care of their own.
As far as the discussion. I’d put lettuce in a bowl and serve her outside on the ground with the rest of my prey.
Yeah, I don’t have this issue. 
@KillJoy yes I was. It was the “FREE education he earned.” As his contract required, he gave 4 years of active service and 4 years Ready Reserve that goes through June 2021. And when he got out, he came home with a 60% disability rating. He earned every benefit he receives.
4 Likes
Being the ballistically ecumenical fellow that I am (I like both Glocks and Sigs, and own both) it sounds like that would be a fun discussion to observe. Marquis of Queensbury rules? 
1 Like
These are great tips! I will keep them in mind the next time I find myself engaged. I am fortunate as our entire tribe is Pro 2A. It’s the aforementioned “…possible distractions or diversions, such as a televised football game” that causes the fights at our family gatherings, lol.
2 Likes
That funny I am a first generation American, with Irish, Scottish and English roots. I am aware of family discord not only in my own family but in every families home or interaction I run into. Is it intuitive ingrained? Do all people notice this and just act like they don’t because it seem more Polite or are more non confrontational? I have no problems talking about uncomfortable things but not always at the moment other do.
5 Likes
Welcome to the community.
3 Likes
Thank you!!
2 Likes
So true. In my career I’d have people cussing me out and try to bait me on duty. I perfected this little smile that really drove them crazy. Never needed to say a thing.
2 Likes
As we get into the 2020 holiday season, I am curious how many of us have family members who used to be anti-gun, but might find themselves more willing to have constructive conversations regarding firearm ownership, or how many of us have relatives who were antigun, but might now be part of the millions of first time gun owners who bought their first gun the last couple months. So who knows, maybe your hard core anti’s are a bit more open-minded than they were. And if they are, offer to take them to the range.
For me, I was seeing the news of a 911 call I think in Michigan? Not sure exactly if which state. But it was in the begging to mid BLM riots. A mother with a toddler called 911 because turned a corner and accidentally ended up in the mob at night. She was desperate and need assistance. They were surrounding the car yelling and shaking the car. The 911 operator told her she couldn’t ram the people and pretty much had to deal with it. The police had been gagged and 911 operators had to tell the people they were basically on there own and had no rights. She kept screaming for help and she had a toddler with in the back seat.
The next riot Clip came from New York again extreme left governor. Showed a few BLM or antifa who know. Chasing a young man throwing firecrackers or m80 at him. He found an open car and got in to hide so they started throwing the firecrackers or whatever into the car to force them out then continued to throw them in in his face while still running. Have no idea what happens once’s he ran out of energy and could no longer run.
The biggest turning point after seeing the police had been gagged and not permitted to do their job was after major Garcetti announced defunding the. Police two days after the rioting. They had attacked our government building on too
Of everything else.
It was then I realized time are not the same. Our police is being attacked not just by organized criminals but bad political players. I realized the time had come where firearm safety and proper defense training is now considered another viable skill set that may save your life. Or at least it should be.
So for me this is how I explain it to my anti gun liberal, lie in the sky follow the group friends and family:
“It’s better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.”
Look at it as viable and sustainable living skill that one day may save your life or the life of your family.
We live in LA we see flowers and candles in the sidewalks, on the underpass and off the freeway every day.
We live in a sanctuary state.
The problem here is we mainly see or hear of criminals with firearms so we are taught to equate it to that. Yes the logical answer is more armed citizens to protect themselves but most of our friends who think like that act like knuckle heads so your mor concerned with how responsible they are and if your in danger. Then the really, solid responsible gun owner don’t talk about to avoid arguments, shunning and being robbed.
So it’s something that many have. Thru don’t talk about. But as a women if my ex husband or last boyfriends into guns presented it as:
It’s a viable living skill that may one day save your life or the lives around you and it’s a basic living skill that is better to have it and not need it. Then need it and not have it.
I would have started much sooner because that logic and wording makes sense to me. It practical and a living skill.
3 Likes
@bentlogix To have and not need being better than to need and not have is a sound argument and a rather benign non argumentative tactic. It can be followed up by we have fire departments we don’t need fire extinguishers and we have police so we don’t need to defend ourselves. Early on in my college experience I was in a public speaking class and I was teamed to go head to head with a “car chick” (she had a beautiful 68 Camaro SS daily driver) that was rabidly anti gun. The topic we were assigned to debate of course was gun control as opposed to car control (I’m also a car guy but back then I was into 4X4 trucks). I want to say this was right around 1994 when the Assault Weapons Ban just got passed or was being debated upon.
In the debate she hit me with every emotional talking point that was being bandied about at the time 40,000 fire arms deaths, # of children killed, blood in the streets and crazy folks that carry guns. I had all the deadly car stats and the REAL firearms stats from the FBI and blah blah blah. In the end segment she opened with “Nobody NEEDS…” I replied with Nobody NEEDS a car that can do 3 times the legal speed limit … In the end the instructor (I hesitate to call her a teacher) called our debate a draw.
However… I raised enough interesting points to her that she was willing to go to the range with me as she had never handled a firearm before and I got to launch her Camaro on a drag strip (cut an 11) in the end she said she would probably never own a gun and I said I would probably never own a Chevy. Sometimes facts and reverse emotionalism work.
Cheers,
Craig6
2 Likes
I just ordered this from Amazon. 
1 Like
I graduated high school in 1989. So I do remember and can relate to your story. Great story and great example. I agree you have to give an emotion based debate with an person who is noticed and led by their emotions. And it’s best to debate reason and practical reasons with practical and reasonable people. But if you can combine the two and ad a personal twist that’s at the heart of every humans being, safety, family, freedom etc you can hit a broader spectrum of mindsets and ideology.
So far I have asked a hand full of people to come into his adventure of learning firearms for self defense. I kept getting either the sounds of crickets or disappearing acts. Except my one friend the towns a shop and realized after the first month of riots he needed one. And another friend who became interested once I found a meet up for women that introduces firearm to women under the gun aspect of kicking in doors and shooting the bad guys. That helped get two of my friends interested. So far one has committed to going. It easy to find like minded company but I’m learned a long time ago
That if I want to do something I need to be comfortable with doing thing s alone and being comfortable with being uncomfortable when learning new things.
3 Likes
That @bentlogix (I almost called you young lady but we are close enough in age that it doesn’t matter a whit, looking at your picture you wear our ages well, I graduated High School in 85’) is a lesson all should learn. I got over my fear of heights when they frog marched me out of the back of a C-130 and further when I Australian repelled down a 10 story building face first. I never had a problem driving 140 mph+ but that whole falling thing had me wrapped. In your town I am sure you could get 10X more people to jump out of an airplane than pick up a gun, one is 10,000 times (if not more) dangerous than the other but it comes down to perception and dare I say exposure. My wife lived around guns her whole forming years yet when I met her she was anti gun (fresh out of college) she was rather shocked to find out the frame under my mattress was actually a gun locker that we had been knocking boots on for months.
The college story happened much later in my life it was probably 1994 or more before I took my first college course, Unix 101. I can still do stuff my 23 year old NASA computer geek son can’t do because of that. I finally got my first degree after I retired in 2009 and then got bored wrote a 3000 page book that was too big to be published and decided to try the hardest degree out there and in 20 mos got my MBA. I may never use my degree(s) but one of the few things I learned was that life teaches much more than any school can but it’s hard to sell life lessons to recruiters.
Keep learning uncomfortable things, it bounces your reality off walls you didn’t know were there and if you really want to play pinball with reality TEACH. Not an ethereal concept but something based on physical ability and things that make you mentally THINK and physically REACT in real time in the real world. Driving fast cars, jumping out of planes, shooting to survive.
Cheers,
Craig6
1 Like
That’s awesome!! I’ve been going to school off and in my whole life will finally get my Bs this spring and also plan to pursue an MBA mainly because I’m a creative type and practical and concrete was alway my weak area. I’ll do aomtbhing with my education just sure what yet. And yes. I’m uncomfortable all the time but I’m mentally and emotionally stronger for it and have learned not to run from uncomfortable like learning new things that do seem natural to me like math. I know that sound stupid but math has been a struggle it’s starting to make sense. Though. You have amazing stories I hope
To read more of them.
My stories are not as interesting as yours. Thank you sharing so much I think jumping out of anything face first is pretty scary. I did sky dive once tandum. I learned how increasingly powerful wind is and started noticing how the seagulls adjust their wings and feathers to manipulate the wind to do all kinds of things most interesting at the moment was watching manipulate their wings to Hoover in the air at the pier. Yes I am weird. But I keep my self entertained.
I just connected the dot your saying I should o with being uncomfortable with everything new i learn even self
Defense and firearm training. I will embrace that mindset responsibly. Th ask. What seems impossible is possible if you know what your doing.
2 Likes