AR Or Shotgun for home defense

What could the feds prosecute you on? For the state, do you mean that due to optics a prosecutor may decide to push charges for the use of force when they might not have otherwise because of the perception they cast on NFA items?

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I still haven’t been able to find any medical research showing that auditory exclusion actually protects someone from potential long term hearing damage.

It appears to often, but not always, keep people from noticing how loud the shots are. But that doesn’t necessarily mean their inner ears are not still being impacted by the sound waves. There are plenty of soldiers with long term hearing damage. I suspect that at least some of that damage occurred in stressful combat situations and not just during low stress practice drills.

I value John Lovell’s perspective but I’m not going to bet my hearing on his opinion. I would need to see some valid research from actual hearing specialists.


Optics are not NFA. Suppressors, SBR’s, SBS’s and full auto firearms are. Use of an NFA item in the commission of a crime has federal penalties with minimum sentencing requirements.

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By optics I meant like “the way it looks” to use an NFA item.

So, use of an NFA item in a crime? In other words, if it’s not a lawful act of self defense/home defense, but a crime.

If you use a firearm in a crime you are probably in trouble whether it was an NFA item or “just” a regular Title 1 firearm. I would guess. I’m not a lawyer or anything though.

I’m curious though, do you have any links you could provide for the federal minimum sentencing requirements that a person using a lawfully possessed NFA item for home defense might run into?

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Look up Tom Grieve on utube. He is the lawyer on the USCCA videos and has his own channel.

I have watched a lot of his videos. I don’t recall any talking about mandatory sentences with legally registered NFA items. Do you have the title of the video by chance? He is in a lot

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ohhh I’m going to have to watch that. Thank you!

I bought a surplus 12 ga. Smith & Wesson Model 3000 (Remy 870 manufactured by S&W) riot gun from a gun store I used to frequent. The piece was surplus from the PA Dept. of Corrections. It is totally finished in flat black, has a barely 18" barrel, 4 round tube magazine under the barrel, a pistol grip, and a leather sling that allows for hanging it on my shoulder. It has stood up to thousands of rounds of various types of shotshells. Wouldn’t trade it.

*Edited to change bbl length.

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While I acknowledge that everyone is different…

While on Active Duty Army, my unit went to the range, as units tend to do. I was on the firing line and while readying my rifle and ammo to shoot for record, I had forgotten to put in the foam ear plugs I had. The first shot surprised the heck out of me, as the report without ear pro is significant. I quickly put them in and resumed shooting. While my right ear was ringing for a few minutes, conversation was not impossible or even difficult.

Again, everyone is different, but blanket statements don’t always apply to everyone.

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Sounds like your plan is pretty solid. However, some of that ammo, like the .303 Enfield may overpenetrate several normal home walls. Do you have neighbors close by, whose homes may be subject to those rounds? Definitely something to consider when using rounds designed for warfare.

As for me, after “Testing” my plan via a false alarm from my home security system, I amended my original plan that had my .40 cal pistol as my primary home defense weapon. My primary is now my AR-9 “pistol” that has both a green laser and holo sight (both boresighted for about 30 feet, which is about the distance I would be using for home defense) for stress shooting. The AR-9 has a 20 round magazine full of Monolithic Hollow Point (MHP) rounds locked into the mag well, but not chambered. My traditional pistol is secondary. My wife also has a 9mm pistol on her side of the bed. The S&W 3000 12 ga is in the bathroom closet with a bandolier of both 00 Buckshot and 1 oz slugs (in case someone comes armored).

MHP info: Norma MHP™ | Norma

Question ; isn’t the barrel length suposta be no shorter than 18’’ and 26’'over all???

If that was directed to me, as far as I know, the 16" barrel standard applies to shotguns as well as rifles. Besides, there is no shoulder stock at all on it. Just a pistol grip.

For the “short barrel” NFA thing, 16" is the magic number for rifles and 18" for shotguns

But, there can be a lot of nuance especially if playing the “braced pistol” game or the “firearm” “other” game

Hmmm… when I bought the riot gun from my FFL (of the time) I didn’t have to fill out any extra NFA/tax stamp paperwork, just the 4473.

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no harm no foul grey man old age is catching up with me
dang maybeeee Michael Lee 2024 for president :rofl:


Short Barreled Shotgun

Image of Short Barreled Shotgun


Short Barreled Shotgun

Distinctive Characteristics

Shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.

Rate of Transfer Tax


Might have to re-measure my shotgun. Thanks for the link.


Re-measured. Barrel is 18" from chamber to muzzle. Overall length is 28". I’m legal!


I wish I could say I learned my lesson the first time I made this mistake, but I’ve made it multiple times.

I am guessing ? - You were “Outside”?
Sounds about right for OUTSIDE shooting.

BUT - MY EVENT was INSIDE. WORSE - inside a 10’x10’ Basement Concrete Block Room with Steel Doors. Shooting even a 9mm, “INSIDE” - in “There” - Well I could not hear a thing for say at least 5min. And the pain was, well - BAD. I guess my theory was if you are going to inflict Pain on yourself - Do it Right. Actually, it was just accidental. Very Painfully Accidental. 10 yr ago. Apparently, I Learned - I Have not done it again since. Even outside. And I shoot about 1k rds 9mm and 556 every month for 10yr now. I shoot competition IDPA or Multi-gun most every weekend for 10yr now. At least I had good Muzzle Discipline and was aiming at a nearby wall corner.