I’ll follow up with my reply. Just interested in your opinions.
As a general rule in a non-firing class (e.g. classroom only) as you mention above, I would say no ammo in the classroom, keep your loaded concealed weapon in your vehicle (instead open carry your really cool 1911 with no magazine, no ammo, slide lock open…because it’s a 1911 and needs to be shown )
I can’t think of a time when that would change, but I’m relatively new to instructing (co-facilitating) so I don’t know of all the scenarios where it might come up. For classes where you’re practicing draws and/or racking and/or weapon retention, classes I’ve attended have always used safe gun indicator inserts.
Interested to hear what others say. At least he was consistent about clearing his weapon and showing safe first.
Where I teach we don’t allow live ammo in the classroom. We have people who are armed outside of the classroom in the main area of the range in case of issues.
I know where there is a loaded firearm I can quickly access at all times, but it is not in the classroom.
There are too much administrative firearm handling during one of those classes to have live ammo in the classroom.
On the range, I’m good with instructors having firearms on them.
My fire-arm instructor did that same thing…
Cleared it and allowed the people on the front row to examine the chamber.
They also did not allow ammo in the class and I’m not sure holstered guns because I DID NOT see anybody else with one holstered on their side except me, but wasn’t told not too.
I think in class environments this is a smart rule because accidents do happen…
I’ve heard of some of the BEST instructors having negligent discharges in the classroom. Can’t have an ND if there’s no ammo.
Be as careful as you want, but if there is zero ammo, there is zero chance of ND.
Heres another screen shot. Apparently this instructor isnt an isolated case.
This guy had not only one, but two?
Let’s talk about the dea agent who discharged a round into his foot in a classroom full of kids. He even had another agent verify it was clear!
An instructor recently in California shot one of his students.
An ohio instructor shot the gun store owner through the wall and killed him.
All of these “accidents” were due to ammo being allowed in the classroom.
No ammo = no ND.
If the officer has to keep his firearm on him because of his job, I get it. But that firearm shouldn’t come out of his holster unless there is an imminent, unavoidable threat of death or grave bodily harm.
@Dawn, I’m going to go ahead and disagree with you. If that’s the case, he should pick one or the other. Having a badge doesnt make one immune to the effects of Murphy’s law.
This was my reply…
There is absolutely no ammunition allowed in the classroom when there is to be any weapon handling. This sort of negligent behavior has gotten students and innocent bystanders shot by their instructor.
If an NRA certified instructor were to handle a loaded fiream in a classroom, they would almost certainly lose their instructor credentials.
This is a huge No-No and if your instructor does this, be very very careful!
Very, very true!!!
As a general rule, since I use live firearms for all of my classes, I do not allow live ammunition in the classroom. With that said, depending on the manner and the location that this is done, I could see how that helps reinforce the process for clearing a firearm and verifying that it is clear. I still think I would save this for an advanced class where maybe most of the time is spend on the range with all possible safety precautions in place.
I’ve been a student of about 10 classes already. NONE of Instructors has come with live ammo, even carrying his gun in holster. Gun always empty, snap caps on the table.
I’ve attended one class where there was a bullet hole in the wall. They keep it to show students what can happen when you bring live ammo to the class.
We’re actually discussing this on one of my NRA/USCCA instructor pages on FB right now.
A famous trainer who will remain unnamed actually took issue with me implying the instructor had acted improperly and pointing out that the NRA will not even allow us to have live ammo in the classroom by tossing out a cheap shot at the NRA and how it trains instructors.
There is no good reason whatsoever to add an unnecessary element of danger to the classroom.
You can find numerous examples of instructors, cops, military an civilian having AD’s/ND’s in the classroom or on the range.
I don’t care how well trained we are, anytime we handle a loaded firearm there is an element of risk and if you handle enough of them often enough over a long period of time you will eventually have an AD/ND.
No matter how well trained we are, we are humans and thus incapable of perfection.
Yes I saw that. I started that topic as well.
When my spouse and I went through the classroom portion for CCDW (KY, Concealed Carry Deadly Weapon) licensing we had hired a specific, well-trusted, trainer for just the two of us. I explained that I had been carrying for years and already had my license and was taking it as a refresher and because my wife did not want to take it alone. He allowed me to continue carrying my normal EDC but requested I bring a second weapon for the class. We three were the ONLY people in the range / gun shop at the time.
Both of the weapons to be used for the class were of a different caliber than my EDC and both had chambers locked open and flagged, with no mags. All ammo for those two were still locked in the trunk of the car, which we could see through a window.
The instructor brought several additional pistols for us to try and they were all locked open/flagged. His EDC did not leave his holster.
I AGREE! There’s no reason that weapon should have been loaded, especially with one in the chamber. I believe that dropping the empty magazine, locking the slide back, inspecting the chamber physically and visually and showing the class is very appropriate. But, as a teaching aid, it should have been empty when it went in to the classroom.
Call me overly cautious but I’m a big believer in the risk/reward theory.
We have no choice but to insert an element of risk in firearms training, it’s unavoidable but it is foolish and irresponsible to add unnecessary risk.
The only perfect man who ever lived died on the Cross 2000 years ago.
If it isn’t essential to the training process I won’t introduce added risk to my classes.
I will have to go a bit against the flow on this one primarily due to how I was “brought up” as an instructor. In the military with military weapons “Somebody” had to be armed, ostensibly to protect the weapons. Generally it was the lead instructor. In general he/she would provide the classroom training with the “duty” sidearm in a holster, the “demo gun” was on the table w/ empty mags snap caps etc. and that was the only weapon handled. When it came time to demonstrate dynamic handling a “trainer” would demonstrate as the lead instructor provided commentary and instruction.
In the civilian world I continue to follow that train of thought unless it’s one on one training and then yes all ammo is removed but a “duty weapon” is close by.
As an observation: Are WE advocating an advertised “Gun Free Zone” simply because we are training with guns?
I’m not against a dedicated “protector” who doesnt handle any guns being presenting the classroom. This is a smart idea.
I’m also not “totally” opposed to an instructor having a concealed firearm on their person, which they never ever touch… although now you’re introducing potential safety issues.
Where I have absolute opposition is to someone pulling out a loaded gun, in a classroom, and handling that gun. Now you’re asking for trouble.
As for “adverising” a gun free zone, you’re going to have to clarify that one.